Disclaimer: I haven't had time to read all my sources on this again, and probably won't until at least Thursday, so I'll leave the main argument out for a while. Nonetheless:-
Pam Carlson:
I agree. But I stand by my feelings that the word "Uzko" has no innate gender connotations. It means "The Pained Folk" (see sidebar page 4 of the superb Uz Lore book), and as explained in that reference "Uz" is the word for the Troll community (as opposed to "not-Uz", everybody else). It's close when used to refer to a single troll to saying "Human" and "Person", both gender-neutral words. Now, if an _Uzko_ was referring to another Uzko I think he'd use the Uz gender pronouns (or equivalent), and I'm damned sure the default pronoun gender is female! I agree.
I'll state for the record that I didn't and don't mean this line of argument to be a sexist comment, I am just expressing my honest opinion on Troll culture, which is one of my more favoured Gloranthan subjects. My "Sorry, gals" comment probably wanted a friendly emoticon attached to it, and was joking in nature. I hope nobody takes/took offence from this - although I can't see why they would to be honest. <shrugs>
>> I really don't think that Troll society is like a reversed Victorian
>>England, I really
>>don't.
>
>I've never heard anyone describe it to that extent, and certainly never
>thought of it that way. Have I missed something?
Perhaps. I wasn't suggesting this was the common opinion, merely an extended version of some of the suggestions that have been made recently on the digest. Looksee:-
Victorian England - a male-dominated society where females couldn't vote (their opinions were not valued), could get very few if any high-powered jobs and were expected to obey their father, marry young and bear children, which they then raised, looking after the household. The men provided money/food and had all the political power and freedom. The physically strong male defended the 'weak' female from physical harm and the rough elements of society.
Reversed Victorian England - Replace all references of "female" above with "male" and vice-versa, apart from the bearing of children which the men cannot do, although they do raise them. This includes the women being physically much stronger than the men, and defending them physically if need be.
So, the Uz do not work like this. TSR Drow _do_, (apart from the raising of the children, which I've never seen mentioned at all), so I don't consider my original statement to be ridiculous. Female Drow have all the political and social power, are physically stronger and faster than the males and in all ways superior. Male Drow are not really valued in Drow society.
I think the TSR Drow concept is basically Bollocks, but then again, AD&D wasn't designed as a high-roleplay environment, was it? (Disclaimer 2: I like AD&D, and it's possible to roleplay very deeply with it. It just wasn't really designed that way).
Now, in Uzko culture, the females _are_ physically superior, but not by _that_ much. They are politically superior, but the males still have political power (some, like Arkat, Gerak Kag, etc. no doubt had loads!). Both the males and the females both fight, and most of the great expeditionary war leaders _do_ seem to be males (Kaarg's Sons/Death Lords), even though some of the best one-on-one fighters are females, probably due to better magic.
What are the females valued for to be on the top in the Uzko culture? Their ability to give birth to more Uzko, which is sacred to Uzko and definitely a female characteristic. They are _not_ valued more for being physically strong and good fighters, which is a male characteristic in the human way of thinking. And it is _this_ that makes the Gloranthan Uzko society really
My statement: Trolls are not a Reversed Victorian England. Any arguments now? (Actually, I think this is a great subject to discuss, one we could really sink our teeth into and maybe get a useful result for both anthropologists and gamers).
Pam, please don't mention Mushy Peas... I'll be sick. ;-) The offer of breakfast was genuine, I have a good 50%+ in my cooking skill. ;-)
BTW, I basically agree with David's comments re: Troll Gender Issues. No arguments there.
<4 hours pass as Paul's new RQ player arrives to discuss his character. By the time he leaves, we have a concept and promises of source material, but nothing else. Paul returns to the digest>
Phew! That was tiring! A few HQ notes before I go to bed:-
HeroQuesting and Support:
It _does_ seem to be possible to HeroQuest alone and get good results. Having support gives:-
Otherwise, it does seem to be possible to HeroQuest without support - just more dangerous. And who needs more danger when HeroQuesting? :-)
Harrek _seems_ to have killed the Polar Bear god and stolen his power single-handed. However, he cunningly (or accidentally) did this at the High Holy Day celebrations of the cult, which was I believe small enough for the congregation to represent a large proportion of the worshippers of that god. Since the worshippers witnessed Harrek's actions, they unwittingly supported the effects of Harrek's HeroQuest - they all saw him flay the bear alive, they spread the talle to the other worshippers, myth had been created and Harrek's HeroQuest held true. So IMO Harrek _did_ have support on this HQ (obviously of type 2 rather than type 1), perhaps explaining it's surprisingly potent effects.
Comments?
Best Wishes,
Paul.
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