Re: Glorantha Digest V4 #545

From: Martin Dick <Martin.Dick_at_fcit.monash.edu.au>
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 15:12:47 +1000


Manifest Confusion from Peter and Me :-)

I am well aware that having an objective framework to handle mythic conflicts is a different question to whether myths have an objective base. I was replying to the Original Martin's rant and rave about how anyone could possibly want to have objective myths in their game when his view of how myth in Glorantha worked was so much better.

My response was that we have moved from a situation of relatively objective myth in the 1980s where we could say what happens when myths collide (i.e Orlanth killed Yelm back then so that's how it will work out now) to today where (aside I have the Entekosiad though not TFS or GROY) we have a range of myth cycles all of which seem to be true for their cultures.

Now, personally, I think this a better thing and something which adds to Glorantha, but when it comes to gaming, I believe it leaves a big hole. Using objective myths does fill that game hole in my opinion. I personally think that using objective myths loses you quite a lot more than you gain, but obviously other people don't.

So I'm not actually supporting a world where there is One True Myth or the like, I'm pointing out the problems that such a world solves and that there doesn't seem to be a solution to that problem and the importance of that problem to various people differs and for some people it detracts a lot from their enjoyment of the game.

How Moonbroth was won

Now Peter and Martin both propose that the Lunars won over Oakfed in an objective sense by using some mass Suppress Fire Spirit type spell and Oakfed failed his resistance roll as opposed to

Martin Laurie says:
>Of course to the people actually there they would argue that
>Oakfed was defeated by a mighty Lunar heroquest proving
>the Shamans mistake - but then the winners write history

To my mind, the latter scenario where we have Lunars Hqing to control Oakfed as the rebellious/lost son of Lodril and praxian Shaman's desperately trying to help Oakfed from being corrupted by the dark powers of Wakboth and trying to use the Waha myth to turn him back while the rest of the battle is raging would lead to a far more interesting game than just Lunar General roll your chance and Praxian leader (a strange concept in itself :-)) make a resistance roll. Now that is of course a simplification of what they said, but seems to be the essence of the mechanics they are suggesting.

Martin Laurie says:
>There is no great mystery to it, its simply the application of
>superior magical sophistication backed by superior force.
>You could simulate this very easily in any game.

I guess my problem is that I want both, I want mystery and wonder, but I also want some framework for that. Maybe that's not possible.

Pam states:
>In ToDP, we needed to ride in a gnome to tunnel beneath the
>walls of the Orleving fort. So we combined an Orlanth ritual
>(Sneaking in to Rescue Ernalda) with an Ernalda one (Riding
>in the Mouth of the Earth Serpent to the Underworld.)

Now this sounds like great fun and I guess the consequence following from this is that we just use the current game mechanics combined with roleplaying situations to act out the efffects of a Heroquest as a story. And if the orlevings had heard of the preparations they could have perhaps reenacted the myth of Eurmal causing the Earth Serpent to Eat its Children and thus severely damage the Varmandi.

Perhaps, this is why Orlanthi chieftains keep Eurmali, the Eurmali myths would be chock-a-block with stories about how Eurmal stuffed this god up and the like, and thus provide the clan with many defensive myths and to have access to those myths you need an Eurmali around. Like the TODP group did with Horselegs(?) and the Broo if I recall correctly.

I said:
>>One explanation of this is that Orlanthi myths are closer to
>>the reality of Glorantha than those of the Lunars.

Pam says:
>Does your opinion change when you learn that Pelorian
>myths are full of self-sacrifice, death, and rebirth? Perhaps
>you are looking at the equally powerful myths of two great
>cultures - one which slays, and one which is slain but always
returns.

Well, actually I didn't say this is my opinion, I just put it forward as a reasonable explanation of the facts, what I did say was that it probably wasn't right or lead to MGF. I quite like the Entekosiad and its myths though relating it to Glorantha since the Dawn I found quite difficult.

Pam also said:
>Any ritual or heroquest that draws on some aspect of that
>mythic event will have power. Whether one group of
>questors will have the power to defeat the other depends
>more on their preparedness, POW, and experience than on
>the "truth" of the POV of the myth being reinacted.

This makes a lot of sense, but do you think that the myth itself plays any real role. Does the strength of belief in the myth and the number of people who believe in the myth play any part in the conflict? For example, if my clan is drawing on some obscure local myth, generally of small importance in the wider world, like how the clan founder met and befriended an Alynx spirit while our enemies are trying to win over the Alynx spirit by reenacting the myth of Orlanth being Yinkin's brother, would you see this as having any impact?

Peter put forward that the myths are just paths on the Heroplane, but does the fact that one of these paths is the equivalent of a 8 lane freeway and the other a yak track through the Himalayas make a difference?

Martin


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