Re: Glorantha Digest V4 #546

From: Ian or Katts <ianw_at_zed.com.au>
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 23:27:59 -0700


Michael Cule wrote :
>
> That's what the Red Goddess has planned for Orlanth. She's going to
> evocatio him.
>

No. Orlanth is too useful to the Empire. Lots of courageous anti-Chaos questers for a start. All that needs to happen is for them to believe that Orlanth's Honour and Justice requires that they keep the peace once they have sworn loyalty to the Red Emperor and respect his Mother.

Now, marry one of the Red Goddesses Daughters off onto Orlanth and/or into Orlanth's pantheon ... I think Jar-Eel'd get on quite well with Sartar's mythic family, myself.

Richard Melvin wrote (and I deleted much of his good stuff)

>
> A Type I heroquest follows the same pattern as sacrificing for a rune-
> spell, but:
>
> 1. The magic resulting is powerful enough to make any straightforward
> sorceror jealous - comparable to that got by unrestrained tapping,
> consorting with demons, group rituals, and other
> 'undocumented features' of the RQ rules.

Sometimes. Heroquests can also have non-tangible results - they can make you "more like" your God, but on the inside, where Western Sorcerors cannot see. At least not since they lost RuneQuest Sight :)

>
> 2. Some or all of the congregation will be reading lower on the
> power-o-meter.
> In fact, the strength of the powers gained more-or-less
> corresponds to the POW spent. Heroquesting doesn't really break
> the magical ground-rules of Glorantha; from a westerner's
> perspective it's just another specialist magical technique.

I disagree on this. I think the history of God-Learnerism (the Malkioni Middle Period, if you will) is that Heroquesting for power can be a positive-sum game, at least until it stops working.

>
> 4. For questers of equal competence, the more POW spent, the less
> chance of coming back, as the quest becomes more intense.
> So pretty soon the limiting factor becomes the skill of the
> quester, not the number of people you can persuade to sacrifice POW.

I disagree on this. Bryon Cloudboy gets together with a few mates and does something really really mythically stupid (eg climbs up Stormwalk Mountain for a lark, without a map or remembering everything that the Storm Voice and/or shaman said about the Mountain's myths). His success chance should be a lot lower than if his clan knows and approves (eg is supplying POW/MPs in support of the attempt).

The more intense quests are more intense ... all climbs into the Hellcrack are a Heroquest, but climbing from Light to Shadow to Darkness to Greater Darkness to Hell Darkness gets you into a more and more intense, dangerous and potentially rewarding HQ (at a minimum, once you have seen the Hell Darkness, a shade on the Mundane world is nothing impressive).  

>
> The POW the questor gets as support can be thought of as payload
> (or burden).
> It may get expended in the course of the quest, to fuel magic, pay
> tolls, or whatever. However, it's main purpose is to pay for the new
> magic gift that's the object of the quest.

I disagree. Most heroquests are positive sum IMO.

>
> A Type II heroquest is one where, instead of simply grabbing the prize,
> the quester attempts to influence the rules of the game. At a chosen
> point in the myth, they _leave the path_, taking some different action
> from the standard one.
>
> To succeed in this, it is almost always necessary to have some special
> power, know some secret knowledge, or similar. Just trying to make
> friends with Zorak Zoran, without a whole _load_ of Harmony powers, will
> get you mashed into a thin paste.
>
> So you normally have to do one or more Type I quests to stand a chance
> of success at a type II quest. Doing the 'normal' version of the quest
> first is probably a good idea as well, so you know what's what.
>

Hear hear. At a minimum, you should know the "script" of the minor quest you are trying to change.  

> If all this works, the relevant myth changes _for the following groups
> of people_.
>
> - - anyone who actually donated POW to the quest[5].
>
> - - anyone you have some kind of magical soveriegnty over
> (e.g. Argrath's kingship of Dragon Pass).
>
> - - anyone initiated by one of the above.

This is IMO one of the keys to initiation as a concept ... initiation is *about* learning the Heropaths of a god or hero, while Rune level is about experiencing at least some of them.

It also works in reverse - all initiates of Orlanth Dragonfriend and Orlanth Imperator died off, so their myths are no longer experienced, so no-one can use their magics (with the possible exception of an Argrath).  

>
> Any of the above re-experiencing that myth sees your version, and can
> sacrifice for magic appropriate to the way you did things. They can
> still remember the way things used to be, but usually have a strong
> tendency to believe that the new way is better.
>
> Normally this only affects obviously magical things such as other quests
> and rune magic. However, it is possible to succeed so well, or fail so
> badly, that you change the basic myths used for 'baptism' or initiation.
> This can be good (e.g. giving everyone in your clan increased resistance
> to disease) and can be bad (e.g. everyone in your clan becomes incapable
> of learning to read).
>
> Making direct real-world changes (e.g. moving a star) by heroquesting is
> not possible. However, you can go on a quest and come back with the
> magic needed to move a star (or raise a moon), so the distinction is
> pretty moot.
>

I agree that it's a moot distinction, but I think you can directly influence the mundane world by heroquesting. I would use as an example some of the "backfire" results from experimental heroquesting like the ?Rabbit Curse? that hits the Lunar Empire occasionally - if one gained that power as a choice, why would one use it ?

Ian Whitchurch


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