Indeed, I think that's rather the problem, isn't it? ;-) I suppose there's a certain logic to this -- after all, no one (sensible) objects to Mushy Lentils. I'm not sure I can manage the effort of will (free or otherwise) required to regard said substance as Green Daal, though.
> > If one makes initiate DI reusable [...]
> Did you mean having divine *magic* reuseable?
D'oh. Yes, sorry, 2LA confusion, cum Freudian typo. I meant "RM".
> Agreed. I think we need to start turning this into a rule system: we're
> quantifying it nicely now.
Yes, this is good stuff -- I hope someone's writing all this down!
> > [Becoming a Hero] is likely to be
> > a relatively slow, fuzzy, and potentially somewhat erratic one.
> As it should be: and it looks like we've got a rule system here that
> makes it possible.
I certainly think so. If I sound uncharacteristically retiscent in suggesting it, it's perhaps because firstly, the Early Greg Stuff(TM) all made an ultra-big deal out of the discreet moment when you Peform Your First HeroQuest, and thereby Become a Hero; and secondly, because it seems to be a tacit (or overt) assumption of various other stabs. But I think the distinction is Wooly, partly because I want to be able to run "mini-HQs" (such as the Lismelder one, in a Tales (#7 again?)), without agnizing over whether this is a "real" HQ or not. While in some cases it may indeed be a quite sudden thing (some have Herodom thrust upon them, as it were), I don't think it's a distinction that the rules ought to force.
I think the same can be said of "Type I" and "Type II" heroquests, which aside from the uninspiring names, are also over-egging the distinction. I think all heroquests, large or small, intentionally or otherwise, contain both original and unoriginal elements; the difference is essentially that if you follow the known path, then the quester (to say nothing of the poor GM!) has more of an idea what will cause what, and hence, what's a relatively safe thing to do. Someone getting too fancy runs the risk of runing into someone else's "game", without benefit of knowing the rules, slipping off into some formless, meaningless void, getting eaten by Arachne Solara, or other sub-optimal result.
All quests "change" the heroplane, I think; the difference is that some tend to just change it in a push-pull sort of way (I participate in, and so support, Yelmalio's valiant stand, Jamuz just comes along and hits him harder), while others do it in a way that might be meaningless and ineffectual, disastrously bad, or inspiredly wonderful.
As for terminology, I think "re-enactment" and "extrapolative" have been used when making this distinction. But I think we should keep in mind there are other, perhaps more manifest distinctions one could make too, such as according to the "depth" of the Quest (cf., "practice HQ", "being a real HeroQuester", "being a Real Hero(TM)", and "incarnating the god").
> > [Starbrow's unsuccessful SLBP]
> While I agree with the point you're trying to make, I take exception to
> the example.
OK, strike "unsuccessful", and insert "altogether more scary and dangerous than planned". ("Ooo-kay, what twit summoned the maniac with the scimtar!?") My poor brain can't manage "grope around for an example HQ" and "autorevisionist history" at once, evidently.
Fallibly,
Alex.
End of Glorantha Digest V4 #550
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