Re: Worldly Issaries, more Traits

From: Jane Williams <janewill_at_mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 22:30:09 +0000


David Dunham kindly tried to explain why he feels Issaries types are Worldly rather than Pious. I'm not too sure I understand.
> Jane Williams wrote a good explanation of Pendragon's Pious trait.
Why, thank you.  

> 1. The Issaries cult was spread by the God Learners. I have already stated
> that I consider them Worldly.

I'd agree with you that GLs are Worldly. But Issaries initiates by definition believe in at least one god. Surely their Piety in that is one of the things that distinguishes them from GLs?

> 2. The Issaries cult deals with outsiders. It's to their advantage to have
> a somewhat more open, less superstitious mindset. If you travel to another
> tribe, you're better off entering their hall even if the motion rune is
> carved backwards over the threshold.

True. But do you notice it, do you realise it's carved backwards, can you work out the precise implications of this, and can you counter them for the benefit of your party without upsetting the tribe you're visiting? A Worldly person might just ignore it as irrelevant: a Pious one can acknowledge the risk but then take it anyway.

> 3. They're calculating merchants (except in my East Ralios). This suggests
> Worldly behavior.

In the loose sense of "worldly", yes. In the Trait sense, where we use it as the opposite of Pious, no. Obsession with trade and profit is a form of glorifying Issaries, after all.

> 4. In Ralios, it puts them in opposition to Lankoring (who thinks the time
> of birth determines everything).

Not sure I get this bit - sounds more like part of the Free Will dicussion?

> 5. In Sartar, it puts them in opposition to Lhankor Mhy (who would be
> Worldly), since both of them have similar roles and similar virtues.
I thought the major distinction was that Issaries likes to spread knowledge, whereas LM likes to hoard it? (Can we figure out who would be on what side of the Copyright debate?)

> Oh, and they get priests by encouraging people to express the cult virtues:
> Energetic, Honest, Proud, Suspicious, Worldly. Your Pious example is fine,
> but probably doesn't make the best priest. He'd make a better zealot.
Oh yes, that was extreme. But someone like my first example, who knows very little about the gods and doesn't care, can express cult virtues all he likes but would have real problems leading a Worship ceremony. Why would he want to do so, anyway?

> And I've never seen a standard list. I based mine off a list from Sandy
> Petersen while he was at Chaosium, but it didn't include any virtues for
> Issaries.

The version I'm looking at is apparently from an old (Oct 93!) Digest posting. It has your name at the top, and references Sandy. Issaries is included in the Storm pantheon: Energetic, Selfish, Proud, Suspicious, Worldly. Slightly different from your list above. I suspect in fact that Garzeen and Goldentongue should have different traits: one differing would be about right. Maybe give Valour to Goldentongue and Cowardice to Garzeen? And Honesty to Herald? The ones in common would be Energetic, Proud, Suspicious, Selfish.

I just don't see that any divine cult should have the opposite of Pious as a virtue. Some societies, yes: the GLs, for certain. But a cult that encourages its members to ignore the divine is self-defeating.

BTW, one other Trait pair I find useful in describing characters, though not necessarily in play: Empathic/Insensitive. As a general rule, healers go for Empathic, killers go for Insensitive. Insensitive types think of the barman as a means of obtaining alcohol. Empathics notice that he's in a bad mood, and perhaps realise why. Insensitives kill twenty broo and worry about cleaning their sword. Empathics look at the bodies and throw up. Tough Empathics (remember the Horror Factor idea?) don't throw up, but do take the trouble to comfort the person who is.

Can anyone spot a trait pair that already covers this? I couldn't, but I haven't used the system in anger that much.

Jane Williams                     jane_at_williams.nildram.co.uk
http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~janewill/gloranth/index.shtml

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