Asks some questions about the Yelmalio debate. Bear in mind that all this is IMO (and probably like to cause severe allergic reactions for some readers):
> The origin of the cult seems to start when Elmali change their
>pratices after recognising Yelm. Most noteably the Eyetooth clan who
>brought in the antesmia statue (whatever that is!) so that they could
>cast sun spear. Presumably the rest of their magic still came from
>Elmal who didn't mind them
worshipping a foreign God.
Look at it this way. The Eyetooth have previously worshipped the God Elmal who has given them 'blessings upon the earth, good barley crops, healthy horses and winter protection'. They would like to cast sunspear on their King. Their cult (*not* their god) can't give them sunspear but they know that the Pelorian cult to the Sun God can. Since the Sunspear comes from the Sun, it must be a special magic of the Sun God which the Elmali have forgotten. Such is the train of thought of the Eyetooth clan.
So the clan introduces elements of Pelorian Solar worship (ie the Antesmia Statue) into their rituals in an attempt to get the Sunspear. This probably costs a fortune and to obtain the Pelorian help, they have to agree to a number of concessions. An example of what the concessions could have been are: the Sun God is to be called Yelm in the worship ceremonies and the Eyetooth clan have to send annual gifts to the Temple of the Sun at Furthest.
Note the Sun God has not been changed by all this, he's still the Sun.
> Tarkalor then brought in the disgruntled Elmali to fight the
>Kitori. Why are they disgruntled?
Because they are being oppressed by conservative Orlanthi who disliked the Elmali attempts to practice Pelorian customs. This is especially true when those Pelorians happen to be a) hostile and b) just across the border.
>After he won they founded The Sun
>Dome Temple, to worship who? They have deviated from Elmal at this
>point but Yelmalio doesn't fully exist as a cult and his name isn't
>known yet.
You are reading too much into the paragraph sequence. The writer explains how the Dragon Pass Sun Dome Temple was founded and mentions that Monrogh was its leader. He then launches into a digression about Monrogh and what he did and concludes it by noting that he established the temple, the construction of which was already noted in the previous paragraph. So most of the events of Monrogh's life including his discovery of Yelmalio have already happened when the Temple was built.
> Monrogh has this vision at his initiation(which cult is he
>being initiated into?),
Monrogh was initiated into Elmal.
>[Monrogh] travels to the sun god to find the truth
>which was needed. He didn't know the name of the god he searched for
>but brought back Yelmalio.
> This last bit stumps me! I'm guessing that at this point that
>they are confused about having contradicting Elamli bits and Yelmie
>bits in their religion. Monrogh goes off to find the truth, I don't
>know what truth he was looking for but it sounds like an "Orlanth are
>you known as God X" type of quest which the digest agreed was
>impossible to answer.
Monrogh is looking for an answer to the religious problems that beset his fellow Elmali (ie how to synthesize Pelorian Solar customs with your Solar rites without seemingly going over to the Pelorians and pissing off your fellow Orlanthi). This is the 'truth which was needed'. IMO He went looking for *the* Truth (ie What the Sun God is really like) but realised he was trying to answer the wrong question.
> Lo and behold all their questions are answered when he comes
>back with the cult of Yelmalio, which they had accidently discovered by
>wanting to cast sun spear! Since the elves have known about him for
>ages it wasn't a sneaky trick by Monrogh either.
The (Elf) Yelmalio cult doesn't know Sunspear and don't build Sun Dome Temples. The cult that Monrogh came back with was the Sun Dome cult of Prax. This cult was called Yelmalio shortly after it was introduced into Prax and any other names it had died out. It also originated from Peloria but was not blatantly Pelorian.
> Also what's the current stand on the Sun Dome in DP? Is it now
>officially an Elmali temple or is it still Yelmalio?
It is Yelmalio and always has been. The Elmali do not build Sun Dome Temples.
David Cake:
>> The Firebringer is the aspect of Eurmal when he is
>>worshipped with the other Lightbringers (and the other aspects of
>>his are firmly given the boot).
>Not only is the Seducer aspect spell the spell
>Eurmal grants to his associated lightbringers,
Only done in foppish Holy County temples IMO. I have severe reservations about whether the spell tamely doubles the APP score but would aver that it is meant to confer an aura of powerful sexual magnetism upon the caster. Given the prospenity of Eurmal's spells to backfire, half the time the caster comes out as an obnoxious creep or a petulant adult child. It must be interesting sitting through the Lhankor Mhy conferences when the lecturers resort to these spells or to stroll down to the market...
>but the seducer aspect is
>the one that Eurmal actually uses on the Lightbringer Quest, when he
>seduces Sinjota to allow Orlanth to kill her partner Kaldar.
[Puts on Traditionalist Grey Sage Beard and/or casts Lie]
Everybody knows that Kaldar was the only guardian at the gate. Orlanth slew him and allowed the rest of the Lightbringers to pass. Sinjota is a fairytale created by the lecherous drunks to the Temple of United Eurmal who sought to glorify Eurmal in every myth that he is in.
The real aspect of Eurmal Lightbringer as Everyone Knows is given in p167 of KoS:
'ALONE IN HELL
If Orlanth has been cast into the pits, whatever is left of him can be freed by the Trickster. It must bring fire to him, and if it does that, then Orlanth can escape using the light, and finding the Deeper Path.'
This may be the same aspect as the one noted by Jane's "when everyone had been lost, he found them and brought them together again". OTOH it could be the backfiring liar aspect "Orlanth's thataway..he he he... D'OH!!" or even the backfiring dismembered aspect.
>>>Personally, I think few KL priestesses can join the cult of Arkat
>>>because being a Priestess and being a sorcerer (even an apprentice
>>>sorcerer) are both regarded as full time occupations.
Me>>This is simply an argument from the roolz.
> Rubbish. I simply think that Arkati only accept serious students,
>not hobbyists, even if they are priestesses. Not a rules argument, a social
>one.
C'mon! It's a secret society, not an august society of fulltime sorcerers. Since when does the serious study of sorcery require fulltime work? The apprentice slaves 90% of his time for his master because he is an apprentice in the Hooman society of the West and not because he studies sorcery. One can be an shopkeeper by day and practice nefarious sorcery by night (although the Uz would reverse the time periods).
The chief aim of the cult is to bring about the return of Arkat and/or the Dark Empire. Do you really think they would turn down an application from a priestess just because it requires full-time committment? That's like to saying that the Bavarian Illuminanti turns down the US president as an applicant because the presidency is a fulltime job.
>far away from cult centres of power, though, most Arkati are full
>timers. [...] In Dagori Inkarth, uz join the cult because they want
>to become sorcerers (and they are accepted because the sorcerers
>want apprentices).
You're arguing from the roolz again. How are the Uz sorcerers going to get their daily food trollkin if they work full time at their sorcery? The Western Sorcerer is supported by his society and is able to maintain a fulltime committment mixed in with his religious work (which is usually the same thing). I strongly doubt that the Pagan Sorcerer and the Arkati are able to give their sorcery the same level of intensive study.
Furthermore I do not believe that the Uz are so materialistic as to study sorcery for sorcery's sake. Arkat even in the remote regions of Dagori Inkarth is still a Hero to be feared.
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