The Lunar hell that Treeleaper is in is exactly the same one as Sheng is in (possibly Gerra's Hell of pure suffering). I think its way out of Kallyrs league to go there (and I think you do need to go there to bring someone back). The Lunars may well have grabbed Sartars spirit (nice idea, though I think it would have been recorded somewhere if they had), but I don't think they stuck it there.
replying to Andrew Joelson
>David Cake:
>> .... But often one side will gain the ascendency (though I suspect
>> even in those cases, the losing side will work out how to lose less
>> dramatically eventually), and start taking their regular beating (the
>> forces of Winter in the Kalikos quest, frex).....
>
> Not true, as far as I could figure out. The effects of Winter
>were slowly and steadily depressed as the years turned into decades...
I think Andrew is objecting specifically to the bit in the first set of parenthese (Andrew, this might have been a time when paraphrasing was better than quoting). I agree that forces of winter lost the battle steadily - what I meant by lose less dramatically was they might have found a way that losing was not so bad from their point of view - ie they, like the Yelmalions, might have have found a successful path that concentrates on surviving losing rather than winning. For example it might be that formerly the actual Valind cultists where killed, but they have managed to find a way to make the immortal hero Hend Valindson take the pain for them (who is predestined to lose the quest, but returns anyway).
>> ... And if a Yelmalion killed ZZ, skipped out the quest there with
>> his new fire powers, he will eventually meet up with the powerful chaos
>> he has unleashed - ......
>
> ?? Why? Where? When? Who says he 'unleashed' anything. Greg
>said that you can find Yelmalions with Fire Powers at GC II/San Francisco.
>(His point at the time was that for every Yelmalion with Fire Powers you
>will find a ZZ'er who lost them....)
The reason that a Yelmalion who defeats ZZ can't go on to attain immortality, is that by the defeat of ZZ chaos is made much stronger, so the final station of the quest becomes much harder (and you would die there, before attaining immortality). Now, I feel that this much stronger chaos will come back to haunt the quester somehow. It might not be on the mundane plane, though, it might just be that the next time that particular quester fights chaos on a heroquest, it is much stronger.
Mike explains why he wants a mechanic for PCs to float off into the heroplane
>I do not expect players to let their characters ride off nobly into the
>sunset (although some have). I rather expect them to hang on to power
>and glory until it is prised from their dead fingers.
Mike, do we really need a mechanic so that you can write over-powerful characters out of the game, rather than just appealing to GM fiat like the rest of us?
And in my experience there is no single point at which characters become too powerful for interesting play. Characters become too powerful when the campaign becomes dull, and this varies wildly on GM style. I don't want to have rules that tell me MY characters should retire when YOU think they are too tough - and if they are flexible enough to please both of us, then they probably aren't worth the trouble of putting in.
Cheers David ------------------------------
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