many things

From: Peter Metcalfe <phm30_at_student.canterbury.ac.nz>
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 20:28:18 +1200


Nick Brooke:

About Them Firebirds. There are only two published references to them I can find. The first is in the Elder Secrets Book where the Flight of the Firebirds is mentioned (on p39). Judging from the location of the writer, I can only surmise that it occured in and around Slontos. The second reference is in the Broken Council Guidebook where the Caladralanders are said to worship the Sky Phoenix.

Thomas Gottschall:


In the discussion about the Telmori, I should add that they are not completely destroyed after the battle with Argrath. KoS mentions that in the 14th year of Maroflo's reign, he was set upon by werewolves but survives (p159-160). We don't know exactly how the Sacred King Lists fit into the history of Dragon Pass, but my thinking is that there was an interregnum after Mularik's death and Halifitoor Argrathsson was appointed the Sacred King after the Battle of Dwernapple in 1639. So the Telmori apparently survived IMO. I don't trust the internal dating in the Sacred Kings List (ie Halifitoor rules 7 years, Maraflo rules 21 years etc) which seems to me artificial, so I won't be more precise.

[BTW it is my feeling that the Sacred Kings list actually is composed _after_ the Illiteracy era rather than before. Look at the events in Londario's reign.]

As for Argrath's original fight with the Telmori, the dating in the Saga indicates a date of between 1627 and 1630. This is made plausible by the Telmori swearing revenge after some obscure quarrel in 1629 (according to Minaryth Blue). Although this refers to Argrath of Pavis, I do not think Bad Dream Enostar is referred to but rather Garrath who also came from Pavis. Pavis is too far away for Minaryth Blue to know much about it including its ruler IMO or for its ruler to be involved with a quarrel with the Telmori so he is identifying a local person of importance here.

Since Kallyr is mentioned as having the Polestar as a lover, I feel that she 'married' the Polestar in 1629 being some sort of heroquest. I don't think this is the source of the Telmori dispute as they argue with Argrath instead of Kallyr. At this point in time, Argrath has married the Feathered Horse Queen and is the Protector of Kethaela. He is not (yet) the Prince of Sartar, so the Telmori can't be quarreling with him about his lineage. I certainly don't think that Kallyr's lineage was in dispute by the Telmori.

What then was the cause of the dispute? Looking at Argrath's ancestors, I see on p216 of KoS that King Ortossi of the Colymar disappeared while hunting the Blue Wolf that had haunted his dreams. If this was a family curse (perhaps the Blue Wolf stole the Black Spear when King Ortossi was sleeping?), then Argrath may have lifted it by hunting down and killing the Blue Wolf which must have been a powerful heroquest. Of course, it would have also upset the wolf-loving Telmori. And when Argrath comes to power in slightly suspect circumstances, his feud with the Telmori takes a new twist (as they can call into question his descent from Sartar).

However note the Saga refers to the use of the Black Spear in subduing the Telmori. This is made possible by Argrath bringing back the Aurochs. However Minaryth Blue doesn't note the presence of Aurochs in Dragon Pass until 1641! So although it seems to me that Argrath had numerous clashes with the Telmori and the Saga records one particularly noteworthy battle but puts it in the place of another battle with the Telmori.

James A. Holden:


>(1) How dependent on cattle or other livestock are the Right Hand
>Doraddi of Jolar?

They hunt rather than herd. The only people who would keep some sort of herds would be the sedentary Ia Rawthri IMO.

>(2) What is the vegetation like in Jolar?

The best description is in the Gloranthan Bestiary p2

        '...a huge expanse of Savannah broken by occasional wooded
        river-bottoms.  No true grasses grow here, but the ground cover
        is composed of herbs, bushes, clover and similar plants.  Herds
        of large herbivores roam.'


>(3) What is at the root of the Arbennan tribes' conflict with the
>Kresh? Is it simply about territory? Political independence? Culture
>(walking vs. wagons)? Religion (new gods worshipped in or alongside the
>Pamalt pantheon)? Is there a mythic conflict involved? Something else?

I think the Kresh are slightly odd in Doraddi eyes and above all not-quite-right. The Doraddi may see their wagons as the return of the Six-Legged Empire (although the Six-leggers used horses and not wagons). I think the cause of the conflict is that the Vangono warriors find the looting of Kresh Wagons is a legitimate target for their energies as their Chiefs have forbidden them to attack almost everything else. However the plunder from the Wagons and the accrual of wealth in the hands of the Vangono warriors is destablishing Doraddi society. In a short period of time, the cult of Vangono has changed from a cult of psychotic hotheads into an attarctive way of life. However this requires continual plunder from the Kresh (and thus continual demonisation of the Kresh) and when the Kresh start to put up a fight, the stage is set for a bloody conflict.

>The Kresh empire, "based on trust and custom rather than conquest and
>domination," doesn't seem like a particularly threatening enemy. Does
>anyone have any insights into Kresh society or religion that might shed
>light on this?

The Kresh have made mythic connections with the Elves and worship Aldrya along with Pamalt. The Kresh grow trees and get wood and magic fruit that can't normally be found in the plains. The trees are planted in secret Kresh places and grown to full maturity in a single night. Then the Kresh cut them down so nobody else witnesses it. This is a Big Secret in Glorantha and nobody outside the Kresh knows this. The Vangono Cult certainly wouldn't know anything about this.

End of The Glorantha Digest V5 #56


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