Me>>The existance of
>>Maroflo and Halifitoor recieves support in the Zin List as recited
>>by Dag. [...] Thus I'm inclined to believe
>>that the information about Halifitoor and Maraflo is credible.
>IMO Dag's list is hardly set in stone. Note that Halifitoor is listed as a
>son of Sorana Tor. Another suspicious parallel to the Illaro dynasty, isn't
>it? Of course, it is entirely possible that Argrath tried to restart the
>Illaro dynasty by naming his sons of Sorana like Illaro's sons.
Who was the name of Arim the Pauper's wife? The woman is stated to be a reincarnation in Illaro's day! So what's so suspicious about the appearance of her name in the Sacred Kings List?
>>As for politics, the gulf is much deeper than mere aggression.
>>Argrath is the one who went to aid the family of prominent Lunar
>>General which is not something that Kallyr would do.
>Yes, but apparently he did so only after Kallyr had died. M.Blue and CHDP
>agree on that sequence, if not on the dates.
So what is the cause of the great personality change that leads Argrath to start supporting Lunars after Kallyr's death?
Me>>Minaryth [Blue] would have still referred to Garrath as Argrath
>>of Pavis [in years of my life] (since Garrath spent several years
>>there) and not care much about Bad Dream Enostar, the ruler of
>>Pavis. IMO.
>He calls him Argrath Maniskison for his ascendance to the throne.
Because Argrath revealed his lineage when he ascended to the Throne. I doubt it was widely known prior to that event.
>(If Jaldon my dentist hadn't cashed in the money I had planned
>for the flight to Victoria, I would address this and other subjects at the
>KoS panel... I hope Steve does without me.)
And I'll make sure to contradict him tooth-and-nail...
[Wolf Runners]:
>>The units are the Wolfskins rather than the Telmori IMO. They use
>>the souls of the skinned Telmori to aid them in their shapeshifting.
>>A simple and elegant solution...
>Unless you look at the RQ terminology of Telmori magic ("Wolfrunning" is
>their variant of Hykim's "Transform Limb").
A wolfskin who transforms into a wolf would also be called a wolfrunner. So where is the problem?
[Argrath and Prax]
>>I really don't see any connection between *the* Argrath and Bad Dream
>>Enostar.
>If we agree that *the* Argrath is identical to Garrath Sharpsword, then
>there would have been sufficient opportunity for him to meet Enostar in
>Pavis. The city ain't that big...
That's true. But I don't see why Enostar has to be a boon companion of *the* Argrath merely because they were in the same city.
>>Thus *the* Argrath can't have had praxian allies to negotiate with
>>the Grazers after the Brown Dragon Rising.
>He has the Bullocks, Twin Spears, Sword Brothers, and Pavis Royal
>Guard in DP.
The PRG are not Praxian nomads. I have similar suspicions about the nomad character of the secret societies. Doubly so because they are in the Free Army and not the Barbarian Horde.
>>Also note that Argrath
>>Whitebull has enlisted the aid of Jaldon Toothmaker who is solely
>>interested in plundering Dragon Pass.
>Where is this from? During my off-line discussions I have developed a theory
>on White Bull involving Jaldon, and this source might contribute to it or
>shatter it.
The Argrath Saga p22 to 24.
>>Furthermore the Pol-joni are hostile to Jaldon
>>Toothmaker and the Praxians because of the deeds of Derik Pol-Joni.
>Yet in DP Jaldon leads the Barbarian Horde, consisting of three Pol Joni
>clans, two Amber clans and one each Potor and Ansil clans plus the tribal
>magicians Flash Jak, And-jay and Krise.
Oops! I do have severe doubts nevertheless about the nature of Jaldon's relationship with the Barbarian horde and would assume that he would be more controlled in what he could do. Like his army must sack a city in Dragon Pass before Jaldon can return. Then he roams from city to city trying to sack them...
[King Brian]
>>IMO Harrek did not slay King Brian as the latter had been dead since
>>1625 when he marched through the lands of the Kitori.
>However, Brian was an accomplished heroquester, and I tend to believe the
>Saga over Densesros, who fails to mention the entire Heortland episode when
>even M.Blue gives corroborative evidence.
Densesros omitted it because he was writing a history of Dragon Pass not the Holy Country. Even the events in Prax or the Lunar Empire receive scant mention.
>>The Kitori loosed
>>a portion of the Pharaoh they had kept and the resulting spirit destroyed
>>Brian and his army because he had let Harrek destroy the City of Wonders.
>Nice theory. I don't believe it, though - who would have given them that
>piece? The Lunars, who invaded Kitori lands a year after they allegedly
>dismembered the Pharaoh and his court spiritually?
Did the Lunars invade the Kitori lands? They only invaded Heortland and the relationship between the Kitori and the City of Whitewall has not been settled. I take the above anecdote to indicate there was strong antagonism between King Brian and the Kitori. And yes, I do believe that the pieces of the Pharaoh were given to his enemies. Who else would ensure that he doesn't come back?
>The Argrath Saga gives us a different view at the events of 1628 (Argrath's
>duel with Harrek under the beaks of the Guardian Cranes), and gives us
>another date for Brian's death. Can you give me any reason why this is a
>falsified account of what happened? Unless you can, I won't accept Brian's
>death in 1625 as his final exitus, not any more than Kallyr's in 1626.
Considering the *nature* of Brian's death in the CHDP (as opposed to a simple battlefield death like Kallyr's or Brian's alleged death in the Saga) and his reappearance in the Army of Dead Heroes (which is after the Lightbringer's Quest), I'm inclined to believe that the reported death in CHDP is one that he cannot return from without the major intervention of others.
I don't like the idea which equates Heroes returning from the dead via the infamous 'backdoor from hell' as equivalent to a heroic escape in the Dragon Pass game. To me, this cheapens the nature of the hero in glorantha. Death is not something that should be easily returnable from after a ressurection has failed. TakenEgi only managed to do it two or three times before his power failed and he surprised the Lunar Empire in doing so. Even Arkat's ressurection was a major shock to the World Council and he had outside help. So to say that Brian used a backdoor to escape his apparent horrific death introduces repellent aspects of super-RQ into glorantha.
To salve appearances, I'm inclined to think that the King killed by Harrek in 1628 is a son of Brian or perhaps Brian Briansson.
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