Getting beyond -ism or -ist in Glorantha

From: Richard, Jeff <Jeff.Richard_at_metrokc.gov>
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 09:59:54 -0700


Chris Bell writes:
>As a relativistic objectivist, I personally prefer the notion that the tales
that >comedown to us from the Greater Darkness are more or less True, as I dislike the >Gods as impersonal forces (takes all the fun out of it ;) But from a God-Learnerish >point of view, this makes perfect sense. Also, according to the canon, the current
>Gloranthan pantheons we may know could all just simply be mostly god-learner
>constructs :)

Interesting. The question I have is what takes do you know of that have been transmitted unchanged from the Greater Darkness. Even, the Lightbringers' Quest was assembled from a myraid of Heortling tribal secrets by Harmast - some four centuries after the Dawn. Previous to that, the myth was more along the lines of "Orlanth and his companions traveled to the Land of the Dead".

Furthermore, VERY few of the Gloranthan pantheons that we know of are god-learner constructs. Certainly not the Orlanthi, whose pantheon was well-defined in the First Age and whose heartlands are north of Kerofin - - far removed from god-learner meddling.

Gloranthan myth alludes to Gloranthan secrets. There are cosmological truths in Glorantha - but they are not narrated by the myths, but rather alluded to. The Lightbringers' Quest reveals a genuine cosmological truth about Glorantha, but it does not provide the only path for revealing that truth. Same thing with the mysteries of the Second Son or Shargash's Enclosure. This is not the same thing as saying "whatever you believe is true" but it is also not the same as saying "Cults of Prax is true".

>Regardless of what side you take (Obj or Sub), IMO while Arkat developed
>the HeroQuesting skills that enabled him to defeat Gbaji, I disagree with the
>notion that Arkat was capable of the kind of manipulation you describe. We
don't
>really see this kind of manipulation until the God Learners appeared.

Arkat didn't manipulate Humath - he revealed new secrets of Humath and showed that Death is not solely the agent of Storm. This is assuredly true and his Humathi followers recognized that Arkat's mysteries of Humath or Humath-Arkat were deeper and greater than their old mysteries.  Arkat, that wacky but respectful fanatic he was, had a knack at discovering new secrets in old beliefs.

>Arkat was always able to Quest into Myth to gain powers and tools, but he was
>not the changer, but the changed, in most cases (except for the
changes of death >and destruction he wrought upon Gbaji and his followers.)

This presumes that Arkat wasn't Gbaji or that Gbaji was a single entity rather than an adjective that applies to Arkat and Nysalor with equal relevance depending on perspective. Further, the mere acknowledgement that a foreigner Western Knight knew the great mysteries of Humath changes the cult of Humath. Acknowledging this foreigner as the Son of Humath is definitely going to have ramifications on more than just the foreigner.

>One area where perhaps we can find common ground is that HeroQuesting and
>God Learner style manipulation do not truly change the nature of the Gods,
but
>merely our perception of them :)

I think the fallacy is focusing on the various tales and myths of the Gloranthan gods, heroes, spirits, or whatever as being more important than the mysteries that they allude to and help reveal.

Jeff


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