Peter>Besides, I don't think the Fonritan Agimori were originally
Doraddi.
>IMO they are more akin to the Ia Rawthi of Dolorofrey and have been
>sedentary people for a long time. The languages of the Doraddi and
>the Fonritan Agimori are in seperate language families and thus I
>think the two are as akin as Heortlings and Pelorians.
I had hoped putting 'doraddi' with a small 'd' would make my point clear - -- they are of the brown/"black" race of humanity, not Theyalan. Although they have not been plains people for centuries, their culture and thought-processes is wildly different from Theyalan beliefs and thought-processes.
>>Other than that "Jraktal" is being used far too many ways and places
for it.
>Like where? The only mentions of Jraktal besides ToTRM#8 occurs in
>Drastic: Chaos and Lords of Terror. None of these preclude a first
>age Fonritan origin for Jraktal. The only geographical mention of
>Jraktal places him in Pamaltela.
I believe that Sandy and Nils are also using Jraktal in their East Isles mythos, though I could be remembering this wrongly. But I see your point - -- I don't necessarily agree or disagree with it at this point, I am merely exploring some alternative ideas.
>a) Ompalam, the ruling God in Fonrit, is also claimed to be a Chaos
>God in GoG and ToTRM#8. Yet AFAIK his worshippers do not consider
>themselves to be chaotic.
Actually, I believe that Gods of Glorantha says nothing about whether or not Ompalam is chaotic. He is part of the "Chaos Array," which from the beginning (RQ3 for example) has specifically included some non-chaotic deities. Thus, Ompalam and Ikadz are evil, Gbaji, Jraktal, and Seseine are chaotic -- there is an important distinction. As GoG says, Ompalam is the god of "_evil_ centralization" (emphasis mine).
I admit that a deity can be considered evil by some people and chaotic by others (Malia being the perfect example), but Ompalam does not seem to have any of the attributes which would indicate this.
And Tales #8 is not an authoritative source -- the notes used to compile that article were very sketchy, and a fair amount of detail was added by the Tales crew. Even if we do accept this article, it is only one scholar's viewpoint, and I don't see any other evidence that Ompalam is chaotic to support it.
>b) Jraktal tapped his Chaos Rune into nothingless and thus managed
>to be integrated into the Cosmos.
I'm sorry, but I find this statement to be pretty incomprehensible -- can you explain this a bit?
>But now you seem to want the 'earliest concept' in presumably
>unpublished material has having preeminence!
When I say "earliest concept" I am not talking about published or unpublished material -- I am talking about the concept of magic of itself. Tapping, in one magical sense, means that you draw mana from the world around you to power your spells. This is how I view sorcery works - -- although part of the power comes from you, part comes from the world itself. I think that many people who follow a naturalist philosophy would find this offensive -- what right do you have to steal power from the world around you to power your spells?
And although I know this is not how RQ3 sorcery works, it is, I believe, a component of how Gloranthan sorcery really works. What Malkion taught was not sorcery -- he taught about using the laws of the universe to power and increase the effects of your magic.
But even without these ideas, sorcerers still practice this form of Tapping, every time they bind a Power Spirit or Magic Spirit into an object. Which they do seem to do. And yes, I am aware that shamans and priests do the same thing -- they also are "tapping" the power of the universe to perform their magics.
>Looking at the ratio for Umathela, we see that the ratio of
>Orlanthi to Malkioni is 1.25 to 1. In Fonrit, the locals
>would outnumber the God Learners by 10 to 1. Thus I do not
>believe that the God Learners had the domestic strength
>to impose their will on Fonrit.
An extremely good point -- I'm sorry you didn't post it earlier, as it might have avoided a lot of discussion on the point. As for lack of explicit evidence about Kalabar, please take no offense, but that hasn't stopped you or me before from holding a belief.
Sorcery Tips
>Someone (name escapes me) wrote an article in Dragon magazine several
>years ago on how to play an effective RQ3 sorcerer. basic tips were
>learn Summon/Dominate/Bind spells for INT & POW spirits early, then
>move on to Magic spirits while keeping your INT free andbuidling up your
>skills with your other spells. Until Sandy's Sorcery came along, i used
>to hand a copy of that article to anyone who wanted to play a sorcerer
At one point, Sandy worked on a "Grimoire" with tips for magicians. Most of them were for sorcerers, IIRC. Any chance that Sandy would post it? If not, I could probably dig out the early version I have and post it. With his permission, of course.
As ever, sorry for the length of the post. I have to try to Lurk more.
Stephen Martin
ilium_at_juno.com
- -----------------------------------------------The Book of Drastic Resolutions
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