Re: Elder Races

From: Nick Brooke <Nick_Brooke_at_compuserve.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 15:13:05 -0500



Sergio wants (and thinks nobody's giving him):

> non-human *PCs* with non-human motivations, non-human biology,
> etc., but which don't include necessarily a complete unability
> to live along with humans.

That's what we have. A *normal* elf, dwarf or troll wants to live among humans, have humans for best friends, work for human ends, etc. just as often as the reverse situation occurs (humans giving up all of their time to elf, dwarf or troll concerns). There are, however, exceptional/abnormal cases where members of any of these Elder Races (and/or humanity) may make common cause with other species.

These are the "broken"/apostate dwarfs (who no longer devote every thought to the service of the World Machine), "rootless" [not "ruthless"]  elves (who don't hear the Song of the Forest and are freed to follow other imperatives), and trolls who know humans. The fact that Glorantha *institutionalises* the existence of some PC-worthy members of the Elder Races, and specifically *allows* that they may get along with humans, other races, etc., seems to me to give you what you want. Then the Elder Race *societies* retain their alien flavour (factory-worker/tree-hugger/hungry-scary-monster), but you're fine to go ahead with "weird and different" PCs, and indeed with "weird and different" Elder Race societies, if you so choose.

> I'm not asking for "more human-like" Elder Races, I'm asking
> for "less Alien(the movie)-like" Elder Races.

Uh? I don't get this one: Grue and Broo are atypical. Try me again.

> The way you expose your argument is very interesting:

Why, thank you! I speak, of course, from a mix of personal experience  and informed knowledge of the world. I'm delighted to have interested you while doing so.

> you can play (unqualified) troll PCs in an all-troll setting;

I *have* played and refereed trolls, both in an all-troll scenario and in mixed parties. Hell, my longest-running character ("when I were a lad") was a Death Lord of Zorak Zoran! The greater ease of playing trolls is partly because Uz are closer to humans (and to RPG-monster norms) than the plantlike Aldryami and machine-slave Mostali, and partly -- of course -- because so much more has been printed about them. The two factors are of course linked.

> you can play *Rootless* elves (can I conclude that non-ruthless
> elves are unsuited for PCs?);

I understand the intention of the authors of RuneQuest/Gloranthan sources has been to make "Rootless Elves" suitable for use as PCs: other elves "ought" to be concerned with the well-being of their own forest to a degree that would normally preclude their use as player characters, though clearly there are settings (including locations, scenarios, campaigns, adventurer parties...) where this wouldn't be a problem. In general, Aldryami are as likely to get involved in "meat animal" business as humans are to worry about ecological balance, deforestation and environmental harmony: some may, but they're weird.

My own gloss on this is that "immature" (PC) elves will, in the course of time, "mature" into harmony with the Forest. It's quite natural for young elves to wander forth, see the world, interact with other species, etc.: and just as natural, in time, for them to "set down roots" in a home forest and devote themselves to its care, upkeep and feeding.

> you seem to think that dwarfs - if "broken" - can be played in a
> mixed party provided you integrate them in the party because of
> their *hilarity value*. Do I spot here a value scale?

Oh no, certainly not. I have few if any personal preferences, and take great care to conceal such as I may possess whenever I post to this Daily, remaining, as ever, strictly impartial and above the fray... that's what you expect from me, isn't it? :-)

The Mostali dwarfs were intentionally written to be a parody of industrialised factory-age culture: it wasn't for nothing that the seminal article on the race (by Greg Stafford, in Different Worlds #24) was called, "Why I Dislike Mostali". But even there, there's an outlet: both apostate ("broken") and/or heretical (esp. Openhandist or Individualist) dwarfs make *fine* player characters.

While *normal* dwarfs are fun, either for amusement value (cf. the ES scenario-sequence where their general uselessness is revealed), or as an alien, implacable, inhuman, crafty, scheming and greedy race of monstrous foes, seeking to build their Doomsday Machine and "repair" Glorantha, while doing so obliterating the "errors" of Growth (cancerous), Free Will (distracting), Humour (obviously faulty and counterproductive), etc., I'd suggest it's unlikely to be much fun playing normal dwarfs in a normal dwarf context:

: Their life is set for them in exactly the way their parents did
: it, and as long as they do not fail in their ancient way then
: they, too, can join the assembly line right there next to mom
: and dad, and grampa, and great-grandpa, and great great grandpa
: ... (I cannot go on).
                        -- "Why I Dislike Mostali", GS, DW #24

The disadvantages of playing members of a race who (when orthodox) strive to be obedient, unimaginative, humourless and inflexible are easy to see. Better to lift them "out of context" -- which is why I'd find it hard to use orthodox Mostali in a Mostali setting as player characters in a RuneQuest game. Harder than Aldryami or Uz, certainly.

Note that I've seen a highly amusing -- yes, it's that "fun" thing again: Gods, does the man think of nothing else when he's playing games -- scenario by Mike McGloin and Oliver Jovanovic, set in an orthodox Mostali society, where the PCs are all secretly heretical. This borrowed heavily from the idioms of the "Paranoia" RPG, in which *everyone* is suspected of being a Commie Mutant Traitor, belonging to Secret Societies, etc. -- and, in fact, every PC in the game *is* a mutant traitor -- but where society's assumed "norm" is that they're all loyal agents faultlessly obeying their benevolent superiors. So all the dwarf PCs try to *look* "holier than thou" -- ultra-orthodox, above suspicion, etc. -- in order not to be suspected of deviance by the Nidan Conclave (Paranoia players would say, "The Computer"). (But maybe that's too enjoyable  for the apparent Portuguese role-playing idiom?)

> You think trolls and elves (and sometimes dwarfs) can be played
> by themselves, just like humans. If they can be played by them-
> selves, they certainly can be played together without making them
> clones of each other.

I'm *sure* they can be played, both by themselves and in groups of other adventurers. Nobody's saying that all members of the Elder Races are identikit clones without personalities or differences: that'd be very unplayable (and uninteresting).

It's obviously easier for GMs to run scenarios and campaigns where every player shares common objectives. This is why single-culture (and single-cult) adventures and scenarios are usually so much more interesting than generic dungeon-bashes: playing Yelmalion Militia in "Gaumata's Vision" or one of the many Oz "Sun County" tournament scenarios is *vastly* more fun IMO than playing a generic PC party through the same experience. And that explains why I think it'd be easier to have fun playing members of the Elder Races in a dedicated campaign (where background, setting, plot, characters and nuances all further exploration of the characteristics of Aldryami, Mostali, Uz, or whatever society, myth, worldview, etc.) than as weird oneoff  extras in a "normal" PC party (where the unique concerns of the inhuman members are a distraction from the "common goal", and tend to be sidelined, if only because the GM lacks time to explore them thoroughly).

You hate Dwarfs, I hate Ducks: that's why there's democratic politics and horse-racing in this world. Opinions are bound to differ. Luckily for both of us, it's easy to play games set in Glorantha without ever needing to meet either a Dwarf or a Duck (or, thank gods both above and below, a Grotaron).

> The phantom of *High Fantasy cliches* is yours: I never played AD&D
> or Tolkien-based games

Yur, but it's a valid one: that *is* what we're up against!

> [skip the demonstration that my examples could perfectly be
> applied in Glorantha]

That's the point: it's not a "demonstration of your examples", it's a flat statement of accepted Gloranthan background, much of which can be found in the major recent source for the Elder Races. But you wrote this off as "silly" (why?), and proposed "your examples" as, one is forced to presume, some novel alternative.

> I didn't denounce *all* [the AH supplements'] contents as "silly",
> only some.

What you wrote in V5#342 was: "Making elder races behave in silly ways (and IMO this is what most recent materials about dwarfs, trolls and elves achieve)"... Pardon me for assuming you found the contents of the most recent source on dwarfs, trolls and elves "mostly silly" on such scanty evidence.

> After all, Nick, it wasn't me that wrote:
> - That trolls are like head-bangers (remenber the discussion about
> troll music?)
> - About the *hilarity value of a "broken" dwarf*
> - About the *the f***ing Ducks*
> - About heavily RW-human-based sexuality for trolls
> - About trolls eating what-ever-you-like *'a l'orange*
> and other very, very human inspired cliches... :-)

Sadly, it wasn't. I live in hope that your contributions will, in time, be as amusing and interesting as these bygone gems. :-)

YGMV,
::::
Nick
::::


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