Re: Stargazing

From: TTrotsky_at_aol.com
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 13:34:22 EST


Me: > Beyond simple sun-signs, the important features in RW astrology are the
> angles which the planets subtend to each other and the division of the
houses

 Alex:
<<Remember that the planets go through the same houses too>>

     Right. Indeed this is the main point of dividing the houses in the first place. Because the houses divide up in different ways for every individual (with a few exceptions) you get a lot of complexity to play with. The problem is that this only works because of the effects of latitude. While Yelm's path does vary relative to the background stars because of both the rotation and tilting of the sky dome, it doesn't vary relative to the observer (because the positions of the Dawn and Dusk Gates are fixed), so every individual has 'houses' which look identical.

     It occurs to me that this is *not* true of Shargash and the other Southpath planets. It might be possible to devise a means of creating unique houses for a given birthday based on Shargash's position in the sky or putative position in the Underworld. It wouldn't vary by latitude, as it does on our world (although in some ways that might help) but it may at least introduce a further level of complexity, which I think is to be desired. I'll get back to you when I've tried to do the sums...

<<The presumption seems to be be that there are no "latitude effects" in Glorantha, but one never knows... This is one of the things I wanted to pin Greg on, but haven't managed to. There are two separate issues, here, in fact: latitude effects per se, and those caused by parallax. By actual latitude effects I mean those caused by living on a curved world (which Glorantha isn't), or an _apparently_ curved world (which it is -- see Wonky Light thread _passim_, ignoring the more plaintive cries of pain it caused).>>

     The variability in RW astrology comes from the fact that the sun's apparent path in the sky varies with season and latitude. If you're born at the equator or at one of the equinoces, the sky is divided into twelve exactly equal segments or 'houses'. The further you go from these points, the more the ecliptic moves above or below the horizon, and the relative size of the houses for somebody born at that location/time changes as a result. There are lots of different ways of calculating this, coming up (of course) with contradictory results with each other, but AFAIK the Gloranthan ecliptic always holds the same relative position to the observer regardless of his position and the particular season. If it doesn't - and as you say, you never know - then we're in business. Although it would imply that Glorantha has an Arctic circle, which is a new one on me.

<<The Red Moon, though, may or may not exhibit parallax, or may just appear at the size and position the She happens to feel like, for any given location of an observer (or hell, in general!).>>

    My understanding is that the Red Moon exhibits an apparent parallax, in that She is lower in the sky the further you get from Her. But this does not vary in a nice trigonometric fashion, or even in the same way in every direction. Presumably She dips below the boundary of the Upper Sky at the Glowline, and since the Glowline isn't circular and the boundary *is*, it follows that nobody has a hope in hell of working out Her altitude.      

<<> Many of the Gloranthan planets also subtend interesting angles with each other

Not sure what you (or astrologers) mean by this.>>

    The angular separations (astrologers call them 'aspects') between two objects on the ecliptic. There are nine Major Aspects, of which opposition, conjunction and square are the most obvious ones. The point about Glorantha is that some of the planets have periods which are exact multiples of each other, making their relative motions fairly predictable. Fortunately, there are exceptions, and you might be able to throw the change in position of the Southpath in to complicate matters a little. After all, it isn't as if we want the result to actually look like RW astrology, we've got to take advantage of Glorantha's unique features and figure out other ways of doing things. It might help if I know more about the inner workings of Chinese and Hindu astrology (as opposed to just the results they produce with the Year of the Rat and all that); that might give me more ideas - anybody out there know anything?

Forward the glorious Red Army!

     Trotsky


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