Peter "Killer Kiwi" and I continue to wrangle about Ralios, motivated by
the spirit of comity and good-will:
JR>Really? Oddly, I've long believe that least during the First Age, the
>Galininae were likely significantly influenced by the missionaries of the
>Unity Council and by the later High Council of the Lands of Genertela.
PM>They were but such influences were extirpated by Arkat IMO. During
>the Second Age, the land was dominated by the God Learners with their
>monomyth from whence came the cults of Orlanth etc.
Umm. . . I don't think that the cults of Orlanth were introduced into the Ralian lowlands by the God Learners, nor do I believe such influences were extirpated by Arkat. Now as an important caveat - I do not think that the cult of Orlanth in the Ralian lowlands is the same as that worshipped by the Heortlings.
JR> Such influence is the sine quo non of the term "Theyalan". As an
aside,
>in the First Age, I'm afraid it would be rather hard for the Ralian
>lowlanders to look at the Theyalans as "grubby little savages".
PM>I was speaking of the people of modern-day Galin.
My mistake. I actually have no idea about the folk of modern-day Galin. You know that the whole Third Age is a little hazy to me. . .
>The tribes that became Orlanthi in the Dawn Age already worshipped
>Orlanth in some form or another (like the Harandings) or were under
>the influence of Lokaymadon (like the Sylilings).
Sorry Peter, I do not believe this. The Nine Clans of the Talastari did not worship Orlanth prior to their contact with the Lightbringer Missionaries, but became enthusiastic Orlanth worshippers centuries before Lokamayadon was born. The Sylilings worshipped the great Sky Bear until the Council missionaries showed them that Orlanth is the Great Bear - again long vefore Lokamayadon was born. The Tunaloring folk of Vanch did not worship Orlanth until the Heortlings showed them how to make prayers to Barntar and his father. Not to mention the Somarin folk, the East Ralians and many other folk. Furthermore, I strongly doubt many folk became new Orlanthi thanks to Lokamayadon - his focus was upon united the Orlanthi together, not on converting foreigners.
>The Ralians have
>their own Storm god, Humath, whom they were still worshipping at the
>time of the Broken Council. IMO the influences would be more like
>the influence of Hellenism upon Roman Gods rather than the wholesale
>adoption of the cult of Orlanth (ie replace Jupiter with Zeus).
Ah, but the Lightbringer missionaries offered so much more than simply your god Skippy is like Orlanth. In the Dawn Age, the Lightbringers were superior entities because, unlike most beings, had gone to the world of death and returned. (Of course - lots of folks have their own local (human) secret of survival too.) I believe this to be an "objective Gloranthan" statement - the Lightbringers "truly" had a "superior" understanding of this new permanent change. Other folk had their own local secret of survival but it only explained how they survived and did not explain the new permanent change in the world as well as the Lightbringers. As a result, I believe that most humans that were willing to learn from the LBer missionaries (a process of several years) did end up with shrines to Orlanth and Co.
Syncretic association of Orlanth and other storm gods did not necessarily take place at the same time. Thus in the mid-fourth century, it is perfectly reasonably for me to assume that the Ralians worshipped Orlanth the Lightbringer, a storm god, and Humath, a storm god. That is until Arkat showed that Humath is not a storm god and showed "that Orlanth's actions [using Death to kill the Emperor] had been detestable, and found it tragic that kinship could cover the shame of theft and deceit between the brothers. . . Humakt claimed further that he would use his power as the God of Endings and sever all his kinship ties with the air gods and with most of those he named in his prayers. . . ever afterward there was a great change in Humakt. He no longer had airy powers, not from wind or spirits. Instead he maintained his stern demeanour and humourless attachment to honour and the warrior's code." WF p. 70.
Interestingly, this myth of Humakt is quite different from the Heortling myth presented in KoS p. 67. Both are correct - but the WF becomes quite interesting if it is placed in the context of Arkat seeking weapons against the High Storm and Nysalor. Humath-Arkat, anyone?
>Depends on how close it was to the Bright Empire. Are we speaking of
>pan-hellenism or what? Yes it did adopt some ideals but I do not
>believe that the Galalini were transmuted into classic orlanthi.
I agree that I doubt the Galanini became Heortlings. Do I think that they sacrificed to Orlanth? Yes.
My alter-ego, Nick "who needs no nickname" writes:
JR> For what it is worth I actually think the prime actor in separating
> the Humath cult from the storm gods was Arkat himself. Separating
> Humath from the Storm seems to me to have been one way to prevent it
> from falling under the influence of the High Storm.
NB>Doh! So *blindingly* obvious, when he puts it like that! Jeff, you are
>a genius.
Thank you. It is a difficult task being your self-appointed surrogate.
Jeff
End of The Glorantha Digest V5 #428
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