Funny, then, that the Kingdom of Night under the Only Old One fully embraced the Lightbringers' message, and _spread the creed_! I doubt that Arkat had more problems than the OOO with tolerating the (original, non-Osentalka) Theyalan world-view.
>Now I can't actually speak about what Arkat changes
>made as we only have polemic tracts about the
>Kingdom of Darkness and all that. However given
>that the Lowlanders exposure to the Lightbringers
>is tied in with Nysalor (they come from the same
>source), it would have been seen as _bad_ when
>he cleared Ralios of the deceiver.
That's a non-sequitur. Nysalor comes over 200 years after the first exposure to Lightbringer ideas, and after a good part of the Theyalans breaks off the council. The Ralians who embraced Arkat as their liberator from Gbaji (fewer than in Maniria though, where there was an oppressive regime installed by the Bright Empire). Arkat built upon the foundations laid by the Theyalan missionaries that long ago.
While it is dangerous to compare Arkat to Mohammed, I think there is a certain parallel here to Mohammed's treatment of the Jewish Arabs of Medina during his ascension (he forced them out of Medina) and after his successors had been established - a time when Christian and Jewish Arabs continued to play a part in the affairs of Arabia. Mohammed's revelations accepted the Jewish and Christian creeds as kindred creeds, though inferior in their perception of the truth as revealed to himself.
>Now I know Arkat betrayed the Malkioni to join
>Humakt to fight with Harmast. But he had betrayed
>the Malkioni (who now controlled Lowland Ralios)
>in doing so and thus any message of Lightbringing
>being good would have fallen among deaf ears in
>the lowlands and receptive ears among the Vustrians
>et al.
I don't really think that Arkat left all the Safelstran lowlands to Malkioni lords. On his time among the Kethaelans Arkat installed friendly local leaders (Only Old One, King of the Hendriki) to act as his gouvernors. I think it is said that he usually did so (I'm at work now, away from my sources), so I see no reason why he should have left all the land to foreign oppressors when he had friendly natives to continue his policy (like Maklaman, or the leaders who joined his forces during the rural rebellions). I don't think that conquest was a primary objective of his crusade. Even if it was, we know enough examples of Malkioni conquerors happy to tolerate whatever quaint religion their subjects follow, as long as they accept the dominance of their lords.
>But I strongly doubt that Orlanth have had a
>greater influence than Humath. My criterion
>for assuming that a tribe or peoples had been
>Theyalanized is the adoption of Orlanth as the
>men's god.
Which would exclude the Rightarm Islanders, the Esrolites, the Caladrans, the Kitori, the Boar Riders of Stinking Forest and possibly even the Dorastans from Theyalan culture. A bit narrowminded, compared to the definition of "Orlanthi" in the Genertela Players Book.
But I willingly grant you that under that definition, the Enerali, Vustri, and numerous other peoples in and around the Bright Empire fail to register as Theyalans. Only this would leave us without a term to describe the thing the Theyalan missionaries have spread. Unless you provide such a term, I cannot use that definition... (And the dreaded semantics strike again.)
>Now the Galanini would have still been worshipping
>Eneral, Galin or even Humath (I don't know enough
>about the Galanini to say which one) as their men's
>god and not Orlanth. Even then I feel that Humath
>had a greater influence in Galanini society than Orlanth.
Well, the Dinacoli tribe in (3rd Age) Sartar doesn't exactly worship Orlanth as their mens' god, but Yelmalio (at least last time I asked Greg). Are they something else than Orlanthi? Their kings follow Orlanth Rex rites (even Harvar Ironfist of the Vantaros, who switched to Yelm later on), and their farmers have something between "Lodril" and Barntar as their ploughman's god. They "know the Greeting", though, as do the Caladrans and the Esrolites. They raid cattle like everybody else. And when they want storm, they call upon Orlanth Thunderous, I suppose.
IMO the middle 1st Age Enerali "knew the Greeting" as well, and shared most of the other broader culture of the Theyalans.
Shannon Appel
>If you look at _The Broken Council Guidebook_
>it's pretty clear that the Theyalans had a very definite
>effect on the Ralians (meaning the humans mainly,
>Galanini or Enerali as you prefer -- the Hsunchen were
>the demonized enemies of the late first age).
By "late first age" I gather you mean the years from 200-350 ST described as recent history in the Guidebook. They seem to have converted en masse during the God Project and the early years of the Bright Empire - it is the Bemuri-descended Delelans (and minor nations) who use Arkat for a swearword.
(In and around Lankst, there surely is the opinion that "nobody who killed the Telmori can have been all bad"... They may remember Arkat's betrayal (for returning the lowlanders to power) and curse him for a deceiver, but IMO they don't glorify the Bright Empire as much as the East Ralians.)
[much snippage where I agree fully]
>And the Ralians did eventually come back
to help the Council. That was the Second
>Dari Alliance, and they beat up the Hsunchen
>of the highlands at the Council's bequest.
The northern highlands (Vesmonstran), right? Or did they convert the Bemuri by force?
>PS: Watch for Tradetalk #3 - when it comes out
Which might delay a bit longer, I'm afraid. We still plan to get #4 out by May.
Joerg Baumgartner (via Hotmail)
mailto:joe_at_toppoint.de
End of The Glorantha Digest V5 #432
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