Yes, due to the fact that the myths of Thanatar (via Than/Tien, see Cults of Terror) are closely linked, due to shared myths (At least in the Pavis area. A Storm Khan would definitely know the myths where the sons of the Bull defeated and nearly destroyed the monster of darkness known as Tien, and as how one of the Bull's sons met his doom via the head-stealing powers of Tien/Than. These were no doubt early Urox/Storm Bull heroes/demigods.
I also support the view that Urox/Storm Bull Khans would have detailed knowledge of Chaos, and Chaos cults, due to first hand knowledge passed between initiates and the Khans, from hard-won, first hand experience. Why the Bull had no need to rely on tricks like his brother Orlanth, he was no fool, and no doubt knew how to wisely and cannily fight Chaos.
On the Atyar side, no doubt Lhankor Mhy sages would also know the Thanatar holy days, as Thanatar is one of the cult's special enemies.
> >2. almost any Wind Lord in Boldhome knows when the Thanatar HHD is.
Most likely not, unless he or she is a hardcore Chaos fighter (Yes,
unlike Jane Williams, gods bless her heart, I hold the view that
Orlanth cares not a wit about Gender, at least in the Adventurous
subcult. While I don't deny the existence of Vinga or a seperate
Vinga cult, I've also seen the Storm God as a practical sort.)
> >3. almost any Storm Kahn at the Block knows when the Thed HHD is.
Pretty likely, especially since it ties very heavily into Chaos Lore, and Broos most likely raid heavily at this time, gaining vengeance for Thed.
> >4. almost any Wind Lord in Boldhome knows when the Thed HHD is.
Likewise, but less likely than Storm Bulls, unless the Wind Lord in particular is a hard-core Chaos Fighter.
> Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 08:34:49 -0800
> From: Jeff Richard <jrichard_at_cnw.com>
> Subject: Humath-Arkat and alynxes
>
>
> Well, Broken Council guidebook and on David Dunham's magnificient web page.
> As one of the proponents of the Humath-Arkat "theory", I fully support it
> until I see something better come from Greg. FWIW, I consider it "hipster
> canonical", which is good enough for me.
MGF rules, as always, but just because a theory is popular amongst
digesters and
subjectivists doesn't mean it always works for me. What works for me is
having
Humakt having an essentially unchanged nature since the Dawn.
Subjectivism makes
Glorantha too humanistic and deterministic for me... Although there's
definite
evidence that human heroquesters and human perceptions have an effect on
the nature of the Gods. As always, I take the middle ground.
> BTW, Sandy's observation that Makla Mann first popularized the Cross of
> Lead heropath makes a lot of sense to me. Under the Bright Empire, Chalana
> Arroy healers were often distrusted by those who fought against Lokamayadon
> and the Empire. The Chalana Arroy healers certainly opposed Arkat and his
> reign of war - Makla Mann then murdered a band of them in a nasty
> ritualistic way. At the time, it might have even shocked Arkat.
Not that I doubt this statement, but can someone please refer me to
non-fan
sources that support this? I would hold that not all Healers would
would have
stood as passive nuns pining for the peace of the God's age... As
Chalana
Arroy walked with Orlanth on the Lightbringers Quest, she fought against
Chaos... Just not with violence, but with Healing. Chalana Arroy and
her
cult could not concievably be part of the Lightbringers pantheon by
being totally passive... Look to the Cults of Prax description of
Chalana
Arroy, and her decision to find the wound of the world, and to heal it,
risking her own very purity and safety to walk with the Lightbringers.
In the War of Arkat, I can see Healers taking both sides, both those who
would be rightly frightened of the monster Arkat, and those who would
see
the Chaos of Gbaji's bright empire, and the deception of the
Nysalor/Gbaji
"Healers" who would plant diseases, only to cure them, later. I can
also
totally believe the Makla Mann lead cross heroquest... This sounds like
a particular Arkat-ish thing to do, perhaps as part of Heroquest
searchings
which combined Humakt and Zorak Zoran powers, to render resurrection
impossible?
Historical question... The Disease Healers of Gbaji's bright empire...
were they Chalana Arroy who were Illuminated and also worshipped Malia,
Priests of Erissa, or something else all together?
>
> Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 13:37:35 -0800
> From: Jeff Richard <jrichard_at_cnw.com>
> Subject: Jrusteli philosophers and HHDs
>
> The ineffable Mr. Phipps writes:
> >Pete Nash had some excellent views on the Sky and Glorantha in
> >general. If more people took Glorantha as a place where the Gods
> >exist and the Myths were real, then we would have fewer pointless
> >arguments about the nature of things.
>
> Blech! What a thoroughly mad line of reasoning. These odd, esoteric
> discussions about issues with little or no practical value are exactly what
> philosophers in Nochet, Sog City and Yuthuppa rant about. Even if I often
> disagree with the arcane formulaes developed to measure the Sky Dome or
> triangulate the distance to the Sun, I think that they are exactly the sort
> of debates that the Jrusteli conducted. That's real God Learning, my
> friends!
To some, it's equally as mad to think that the Gods have no
consciousness,
no real existence, and are merely pools of power for enterprising
priests
to tap into. Essentially, IMO, the correct answer lies in between the
too,
for for practical gaming, I find that it's necessary for the Gods to
have a
real, objective existence, at least as far as the PC's are concerned.
Is
Humakt, whom speaks to you in dreams and via Divinations, merely the
expression of the mass-mind of his worshippers, a mindless cultural
archetype
or truly the incarnate God of Death and Severings, it's vitally
important that
the PC's percieve them to be so. To the point of view of the PC's, the
Red
Goddess is truly in the Middle Air, the Earth itself is Ernalda, and
Yelm
himself arrives via the Gate of Dawn each day. Do the PC's have
different
beliefs as to how the world works? The Gods don't have to explain
themselves to
mortals, and HeroQuest confirms all myths as being true. In their
majesty and
power, the Rune Gods can be many different things at once. The crime
and folly
of the God Learners is that they tried to solve the mysteries of
Glorantha,
and force them into something easily understood. And we all know what
happened
to *them*.
> As for the oft-repeated line of "Glorantha as a place where the Gods exist
> and the Myths were real," I'd simply like to remind you that for most of
> our history, that line could be applied to the RW Western world as well.
> For the initiated, myth is not show much a literal language - but a
> metaphorical one that alludes to Glorantha's cosmological truths. Every
> Gloranthan people have different stories, sacred songs and deep mysteries
> that reveal some of Glorantha's truths and obscure others.
But it takes away from Glorantha to assume that the myths are simply
culture
stories, but it also plays havoc to assume that Gloranthan Humanity
(and other races) have had no effect on the shape of the Gods. I feel
that the best Compromise (To pardon a pun) is to take the middle ground
and assume that while Godtime events did occur and that there is truth
to the
myths, that the Gods's true nature can be altered by HeroQuest and will
conform
to the prevailing beliefs of the people, to a certain degree. Damn me
for being
a fence-straddling moderate!
On the puzzling about the circumfrence of the sky dome, the size of the
Lozenge,time zones in Glorantha and Bendy Light... forget it. Mythical
Reality is Natural Reality in Glorantha, be that reality imposed by the
God's acts in Godtime(objective) or by the cultural beliefs of most
Gloranthans and impersonal magical forces (subjective.) The best
explanation
for any Gloranthan phenomenona, I feel, is a mythical/magical one. Magic
gives
Glorantha it's unique magical nature. Forget newtonian physics!
> I think people often make the mistake of assuming that other cultures know
> each other's sacred stories and religious mysteries. Nonesense. The
> Heortlings don't tell outsiders about the mysteries Second Son or mystical
> concept of Brastalos, the "good still air goddess" of the Orlanthi. Only
> the Illuminated understand Illumination. And how many folk outside of
> Alkoth know the secret of the Enclosure (although the Alkothi are all-too
> happy to demonstrate!)? Dara Happans don't know the stages of the Orlanthi
> Lightbringers' Quest and how many Orlanthi are familiar with Plentonius!
In general, I agree with this statement, but basic myths and stories can
be
discovered with no trouble, in my opinion. Want to know the basic story
of the
Lightbringer's Quest? Just ask any Orlanthi farmer! Priests are also
always on
the lookout for converts, and in cosmopolitan cities and ports preachers
and
missionaries would of course be found. It depends alot on how well
traveled
a person is, and how much attention he or she pays to the local culture,
and also
where he or she travels. For example, an Issaries merchant (like
Biturian Varosh)
can learn a hell of alot about various pantheons as he or she travels
(We know that Biturian was familiar with not only Lightbringer belief,
but also with
Praxian, Lunar and Yelmalion practices, as well as some Troll customs.)
Deep religious secrets known only to Initiates would, of course, be out
of the question.
Aloha,
Chris Bell
remster_at_interport.net
End of The Glorantha Digest V5 #488
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