and then gets mixed up over the Karandoli importation:
> The event is said to have occured early in his reign (KoS p213) and
> Minaryth Blue confirms this by stating Argrath's election as having
> occured in 1631 and his acceptance into the Colymar in 1632. Thus I
> think the 1627 date implausible.
He was given five years to bring them in, with his acceptance dependant
on success, remember? So he asked permission in 1627, and five years
later is 1632. You could say 1627 is early in his reign _in_Aldachur_ if
you wanted to quibble.
Jeff Richard:
> More importantly, I am discovering that as a Kheldon tribal king, many
> folk from other tribes didn't trust Kallyr.
Sounds interesting. What's your source? (Mind you, distrusting the king
of another tribe sounds perfectly normal to me!)
> To be honest, many Sartarites who participated in Starbrow's Rebellion
> were more willing to accept Temertain as Prince than Kallyr.
By the time he turned up, the choice was Temertain as Prince or total
defeat and no Prince at all. (And the WFP write-up emphasizes the bias
against female leaders rather more than I think a modern Gloranthan
writer would. Those were the D&D days, after all).
> Granted he later turned out to be a rather big disappointment, but at
> the time, he was viewed by some to be Sartar returned.
"Sartar the Peacemaker" - yes, why not? He may even have been a worthy
candidate before he got Tapped out of his senses.
> Kallyr is a tribal king in her own right - which is definitely against
> the traditions of the House of Sartar and with good reason.
Actually, you know, she isn't. More closely tied to one tribe that is
normal, I agree, but if you look carefully at WFP, she was only a
chieftain, expected to be king when the current king died. It looks like
he did die during the rebellion, and she may have been acting king for a
few weeks, but there wasn't time for a proper election. Yet another case
where what "everyone knows" is false.
>>What other warlords do you propose, Jeff? More Argraths? Including >>Harvar Ironfist? Or other players?
Joerg refuses to be drawn into battle:
> I wasn't aware that I would appear as attacking Kallyr or defending
> Argrath. She is fairly incompetent as commander-in-chief, and he is a
> ruthless bastard - these are the facts.
Yes, and in previous discussions you've concluded from them that he is a
more deserving and useful leader than she is. I still think there is a
great deal more to rulership than simply being a warlord (ask Sartar),
and that in any case we have next to no unbiased accounts of her battles
to go on. She spent a lot of time fighting alongside Broyan, and at the
end of that time had no trouble gathering troops for a fight in which
she was known to be outnumbered. Either all Sartarites are idiots, or
she'd acquired a reputation that CHDP doesn't bother to mention (I
wonder why?)
>>I suspect those oaths are taken right back at initiation into the >>ancestor section of the Cult of Sartar.
*IF* Garrath ever took those oaths, I bet he read all the small print first! The promise to the Telmori was to help free them of their curse, wasn't it? Well, he did. Dead wolves aren't cursed.
> I always liked the Viking Box "Gods witout Godar" section and state
> that a deeper initiation without priests meddling is possible. It's the
> hard, heroquesty way, with real opposition rather than token
> opposition, but it's possible, even with a dormant deity.
Sounds like a good idea to me. I'll have to re-read Vikings. After all,
one junior initiate does not make a religion. Kallyr would have had to
boot-strap herself up to priest level for Flame purposes, surely?
>> Keeping her word would over-ride politics and strategy.
Dangerford:
>>.. and to start with Fazzur himself was present.
>>Battle of Queens
> Until she died, the battle had a definite sense of doom, didn't it?
"Disheartened Sartarites.... outnumbered but held a good position..." -
still, they held out until noon! And since Leika had some troops left to
lead in a charge, they can't have been doing *too* badly.
> (where she seems to have participated at Pennel Ford, judging from
> Tamera Threeslice's report in Questlines 2).
Just re-read the version on MOB's web page (my QL2 being out on loan),
and I don't spot the reference.
Jane Williams jane_at_williams.nildram.co.uk http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~janewill/gloranth/
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