<<Me> But its fun to try, IMO. I'm afraid I don't find this a very > convincing argument - its really a case of each to their own :-)
The argument I was making was that you cannot "fully" role play your character - and the love on the titanic thing was just to illustrate the difficulty of trying. The point of *that* was to justify why we need filters in the first place.>>
My point is that the ability or otherwise to "fully" role play your character isn't relevant to the discussion as far as I can see. If you enjoy your game filtered, then go ahead - we game to have fun, after all - but I don't see this as an argument in favour of this style of gaming.
<<Me:>I don't someone else to validate my acheivements to take enjoyment
> from them.
So you cannot say that someone's "achievement" gained through dice rolling is any less than an "achievement" gained without it.>>
No, indeed, and I wasn't attempting to. However, you did claim that acheiving something through role-playing and then following it up with a succesful dice roll was a greater acheivement than just role-playing alone. To which my response is 'not for me it isn't' - if you feel otherwise, that's fine by me :-)
<<Me:> Where dice are useful IMO is in quantifying more material > obstacles, such as picking that lock or climbing that cliff-face.
More than that, I think. There's uncertainty in everything we do. >>
I think on that we will have to agree to disagree. I'm just putting an alternative point of view, not trying to prove you wrong - something that would be rather silly in such a subjective discussion.
<<I want to re-iterate that I'm not saying let's start rolling lots of dice. I'm just saying let's understand clearly what role (sic) they play and what benefits they give us before we go too crazy throwing them out.>>
I'm not sure who it is you think is doing this. The new game is dicebased, although I'd guess it's rules-lite by comparison with systems like Rolemaster or Chivalry & Sorcery. I'd also be fairly confident that anyone who is 'throwing out' dice is doing so while pretty clear about the benefits and disadvantages, and if not, they'll just change back again. To some of us, the dice get in the way of enjoyable gaming, so we reduce their use. Some even go as far as Amber and do without altogether (although I haven't tried this myself, Convulsion free-forms excepted). But the very fact that a new dicebased system is being produced demonstrates that there is no pressure in Gloranthan gaming to impose that on anyone else as far as I can see.
Forward the glorious Red Army!
Trotsky
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