>> I strongly believe that the resurrection of the departed is very rare >> and requires [...] the involvement of a Chalana Arroy healer in a >> heroquest
> As the leading advocate of the "HQ isn't about Power Level, it's about
> myth" school of diatribe, Jeff, you surely ought to appreciate how
> little this tells us about the frequency of resurrections, or how
> "hard" they are to perform in a material sense.
Agreed. I also note that published characters like Asborn Thrice-Born, while unusual, do have access to Resurrection.
I have not ever seen any PC resurrected in a RQ (or other dice role-playing) game I played in, or refereed. A couple of animated corpses, though...
However, a non-zero availability of resurrection is a known feature of Glorantha even outside of the RuneQuest game. To make it rarer in the news than space shuttle lift-offs would be a zero-availability in my book, since people wouldn't even have heard of it. In that case, a lot of anti- and pro-Yanafali propaganda will be lost...
> Mind you, I'm betting on The New Game being a lot more point-pinching
> than RQ in resurrection, and healing generally, given Greggly noises
> of recent years.
Well, as a referee I am fed up with pounding reticent PCs into near-death, only to see them jump up and tackle the next enemy after a couple of healings. Some magical treatment of damage is ok, but even a small fix like "one point of each wound causing more than 3 points of damage must be healed naturally" would change PCs' attitude to injuries a lot.
Peter Metcalfe discussing with Jane:
> I don't see the need for the Baumgarteresque equation of only
> earth priestesses can bestow sovereignity.
Don't misquote me: only _land_ goddesses can bestow sovereignty. They happen to coincide with earth goddesses most of the time.
For example, I am fairly convinced that Tarndisi plays (or used to play) a role in the Colymar kingship rituals as giver of sovereignty.
Peter again:
> Subject: Pharaonic Despotism
> This is a completed version of a post that was somehow (despite my
> wishes) sent prematurely. My apologies for the inconvenience.
Oh, I thought that Pharaonic censure had caught up with you.
> David Dunham:
>>Makes you wonder about the Pharaoh, eh? Actually, the Only Old
>>One was a pretty reasonable guy. NOBODY fled him for Dragon Pass.
> Where was there to flee? The crossline was still in effect...
Before the Dragonkill War, nobody had to flee there from the Only Old One either. Or into the Praxian Marches, or into Ditaliland. Fact is, people fled into the Shadowlands rather than out of them (except when the lands were invaded).
>>LOTS of people fled the Pharaoh.
> I'm unaware of any Esrolian or Caladralander migrations.
I don't have any evidence about Caladralander migrations, but the Colymar probably came from the northern Esrolian outskirts. Borngold the Usurper's rival and later (sacred) king of the Colymar Barngradus traced his lineage to a priestess who faced Belintar the Stranger in open conflict. (Which invalidates the 1300 date in CHDP for the Colymar immigration to Dragon Pass...)
> The Heortling Migrations into Dragon Pass appear to be fueled
> in part by land hunger. The Pharaonic government would have
> followed but he had limited himself by a treaty with Ironhoof.
That's the Second Wave. Ok, the first migrations were caused by land hunger as well - those whose lands were hungered for, and then "eaten", migrated north. In Heortland, this went along with the increasing importance of Western influences, an increase in feudalism (which is why I like to compare Heortland to Anglo-Saxon England, where heroic companions of the kings slowly became land-owning nobility, too).
Peter Metcalfe on the Origins of the modern Hyalorings
> And I believe that I have stated that the Grazers who became part
> of the Hyalorings were discontent with their old rigid lifestyle.
> Thus they have no need to keep up the pretense of being nomads or
> adhering to ancient traditions.
Then why would they continue to worship Hyalor, founder of these ancient traditions (in their mythical background)?
I agree that Grazer discontents would have preferred to join the Hyaloring Triarchy rather than any other Quivini group, if any (before the Pol Joni became available).
David Dunham:
>>The Grazers didn't survive as long as they did by changing lifestyle
>>whenever it was convenient.
Peter:
> So why did some defect to the Pol Joni then?
Because Derek Pol Joni offered them a return to the purely nomadic way of life. To my knowledge no Pol Joni is required to eat cattle, so it might even be possible to remain somewhat true to the Pure Horse way (though it is expensive in horse herds, I suppose). Likewise, remnants of the Zebra tribe found an opportunity to cling to their traditions among the Pol Joni.
As to Pure Horse dietary restrictions, IMO the taboo against eating the meat of any herd beast except horses doesn't extend to beasts herded by other people, or roaming freely. Otherwise there would be no "hunter" status in the age sequence... IMO the 2nd Age Pure Horse People of Prax were happy to raid and eat other Praxians' herd beasts.
> The rigidity of a lifestyle may help a minoritiy preserve its
> identity over time _but_ it also ensures that a sizable fraction
> of that minority every year is going to defect to the mainstream.
Which keeps the minority small but going - at some point the fraction defecting will be small enough to skip years, then generations.
Fact is that even though quite a lot of hebrews adopted foreign cultures, there still are orthodox jews sticking closely to a life-style rooted in the scriptures. And a lot of these took the opportunity to "return" into the land of their forefathers, taking their chances in a(nother) hostile environment.
Peter Metcalfe arguing with Jane:
> A related argument that I would also make is that Umath's Companions
> is a variant tradition. Looking at the report of the Orlanthi, I
> see there are _two_ sources for the clan councils. Which one is
> right to bring peace and prosperity to the clan?
That's probably more a question of the decision between "peace clan" or "war clan", which needn't restructure clan organisation.
> We are also told there is a conflict phase when a polluted icon
> is destroyed (as per KoS p155). Strangely enough there is no
> similar test in the description in KoS 165-169.
A Lunar standard, from the scarce remains of the dragon's feast in 1625??
Jane:
>>Why on earth would she want to depart that far from the known "path"?
>>Isn't an LBQ hard enough?
: 'Argrath changed that. He discovered that none of the : sixteen great ceremonies was really required to be : exactly the same as the rites to be preserved from : ancient history. He discovered that the participants : are left some options for originality and creativity, : especially to respond to external circumstances which : always modified events from the outside' : KoS p32.
> Is it too much to propose that Kally was the one who made this
> discovery and that she adopted Umath's companions in an attempt
> to make things easier?
Nice one!
I'm not so sure that Argrath (or Kallyr) really changed the adaption to circumstances - to a certain extent, I guess this had always been done. I mean, how much of Arkat the Seshnegi Knight reminds you of the Sun, or the Evil Emperor slain by the Quester, in Harmast's LBQ?
It seems, though, that one of them dared to question events which to change was previously unimaginable.
> Dropping out the Trickster might have
> been an experiment to avoid betrayal but I think that the effort
> was mistaken as the Cook betrayed her.
Actually, inviting the Trickster in is sort of a minimizing effect on the damage he can do...
(Noticing the pronoun I used above, is there a female trickster in any myth?)
End of The Glorantha Digest V5 #556
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