Joerg said:
> In that case this would be something for Jane to write into the cult of
> Vinga - how they resisted the Pharaoh (and supported the OOO?).
I haven't really looked into Vinga's history in this period, but you're right, I should.
Are you suggesting here that:
1) a single Vingan fought the Pharoah for her own reasons?
2) of the clans/tribes that fought the Pharoah, their Vingan members
joined in?
3) all Vingans in the area fought the Pharoah?
Only (3) is likely to have long-term repercussions to the cult, after all.
If I understand you correctly, we're talking about a reference on KoS p 204 to the great-grandparent of Barngradus, who was called Garneneva. And you're assuming from the -a ending that she was female. If so, then her being a Vingan certainly seems likely: to be fighting hand-to-hand against Belintar implies that she was a good warrior, and of the warriors cults available, Vingans are the most likely to at least have had children in their past, or after retirement, whichever fits your dates better. They don't do it often, of course, but it happens.
On the subject of Red Women, BTW, one conclusion I've reached is that the "title" has changed its meaning with time. Originally it meant the daughters of Bereneth the Rider and Redaylde, founders of the Berenethtelli tribe, presumably because the foreigner Berenth had introduced red hair to his dynasty. Later it would mean any woman with red hair (probably descended from Bereneth). Later on, when red hair was more widespread, it became a title for Vingans whose hair was red without benefit of dye, either because it was naturally red or because it went that way on HQ. Finally in (my) modern-day Glorantha, it is used exclusively for those Vingans whose hair was turned red by Vinga.
Obviously for anyone that dedicated to Vinga to have a kid is very unusual. But back in Heort's day, the implications would have been rather different. I'd guess that the implied link with the Berenethtelli would have been more important: of what tribe are the Alynx a clan, after all? Still, I seem to lack your sources for the impact of events on the Berenethtelli. Enclosure mentions only their founding, and the Broken Council Guidebook of course only sets the scene for the conflict without telling us what actually happened, who joined what side, or even that Loky is about to upset some other Orlanthi.
Peter:
> King Heort was the son of a Vingan. He is remembered by his father
> because Pop was more important than Mom.
Also, presumably, because most Orlanthi trace lineage through the male
line (silly impractical idea though it is), and only mention mothers at
all if they're important or unusual.
> Ernaldinni Wolfkiller (KOS p154) OTOH sounds like a worthy ancestor for
> a Orlanthi to trace his (or her) bloodline back to.
Especially when said Orlanthi has Telmori allies :(
Jane Williams jane_at_williams.nildram.co.uk http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~janewill/gloranth/
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