to which Simon Hibbs graciously replies:
>Why? What is your mythic justification for this, other than simply
>'becasue it would be neat'? Are the Garangi associated with some blue
>moon style secrecy and concealment magic?
Not as far as I know. Real world subjects of witch accusations are often accused of using magic to conceal their activities, so I figured that this might be true for Gloranthan subjects of witch accusations as well.
The situation I described works like this. An individual who has not previously detected as chaotic, after an accusation, suddenly does.
There are two answers to this puzzle. Either they were using evil magic to hide their chaotic status, or they weren't chaotic before the accusation.
The two 'options' are just some RQ rules that reflect one possibility or the other.
Simon, I offered this as a way to use Garangi in a campaign that did not raise the objections of Michael R. (didn't work though, see below), not to deliberately step on any Gloranthan Sacred cows. However, the next paragraph expresses my personal beliefs
Doyle>>There is have the view (or, I believe the view to be prevalent) that
>chaos
>>and Praxian culture are separate things. I believe differently.
Blah, blah, blah (snip)
Simon >What you are saying is that the Praxian way of life is not possible
>without chaos. Where do you get this idea? What is it about the
>lifecycle of the herds, the presence of water in the oases and the magic
>they recieve from Waha and Eiritha that is dependent on the existence of
>chaos?
There is (or, I believe that there is) a critical theory that is called the Idea of the Other.
This theory states that whole cultures or groups within a culture tend to fixate on those that are different from themselves. This fixation manifests as the vilifying of the other culture to an absurd degree, for the purpose of reinforcing a positive view of one's own culture.
The classic example that is almost always used is the way that Jews were depicted in propaganda of the Nazi party and government. By repeating this abuse over and over, the view of that which was Not-Jew was exalted. The 'Aryan race' was manifestly Not-Jew, and thus by contrast superior.
For the Praxians, Chaos is the Other. Consider the following passage in Player's Book: Genertela, Pg 11
(snip)
What is evil?
Chaos is evil. Everything that is bad is because of Chaos. Chaos laid waste
to our land. Chaos took away our old gods. Chaos still attacks us. Broos
abound. They help our enemies -- our outland foes get chaos aid to defeat
us. We grow old and die because of Chaos, too. We are sad, hungry, and
lonely because of chaos. Chaos makes holes in our clothes and wears the
edge off our swords. Chaos is evil.
(snip)
And how Praxians measure an abstract like distance? By how far away it is from chaos.
What makes a man superior? Fighting chaos.
How do you become a Khan? By fighting chaos in the Devil's Marsh.
Indeed, the rigid lifestyle that is the source for identity of an Animal Nomad relies on the presence of Chaos in Prax and the Wastelands. An individual is the bearer of his culture. An individual is his culture, in many many important ways.
And since the culture relies on chaos, and an individual is his culture, then it follows that an individual Praxian relies partially on Chaos for his identity.
Thus, since Praxians participate with Chaos in their cosmos (or world view), they need not embrace it to interact with it magically.
Yet the realization that this is true would terrify most Praxians. For most, such a concept would be impossible to fathom without contact with some outside culture (like the Lunar Empire).
Consider the social power of ritual and ceremony. In Glorantha, social power is magical power. When a Praxian tribe suffers some consuming defeat which triggers their collective anxiety and raises it to a fever pitch, then chaos must be involved. But the defeated usually hate themselves more than the victor. This self hatred is then channelled by the Khan onto a scapegoat, who then becomes Chaotic.
The social power is the marshalled anxiety.
The accusation is the magical act that channels the power.
The connection with chaos is provided by the participation of Chaos in Praxian society.
How's that?
Mikael Raaterova replies to the extremely sillier (in his view, anyway) Option 2
>Who would ever voluntarily want to become chaotic, except the hopelessly
>insane and those that plan on getting chaotic features but don't want to
>have stormbullers spoil the fun?
Well, that sounds about right to me. Muriah the Chaos Shaman has some reasons that are at least not impossible to conceive of.
>Having a spell that deceives Sense Chaos would be an immediate hit with
>chaotic groups like krarshti and thanatari if they knew about it. Since at
>least the garangi themselves know and teach 'Become Garangi' (and one
>wonders whence the power originates) and we can assume that if garangi hang
>out with other chaotics, even if only occasionally, knowledge of the spell
>would eventually reach the krarshti and thanatari? Since they'd jump on the
>slightest chance of thumbing their nose at stormbullers they'd all want to
>Become Garangi. Some of them would become garangi and we'd have to assume a
>possibly great number of chaotics walking around frinstance in Pavis that
>can't be detected as chaotic. The chance of them being Accused as Witches
>by a passing Khan is slim indeed.
While I don't think that what you just proposed is a bad thing from a campaign perspective, I get the impression that the source for such a power might be a Chaos entity that give the power only to members of the Praxian tribes, or some other such limitation. Maybe the Bad Man? Maybe Cacodemon? After all, the idea behind ogres is hidden chaos. Hmmm.
Doyle>>Because Praxian culture is dependent on the
>>opposition with Chaos, that which they oppose can be made Chaotic.
>
>Oh dear. The obvious implication of this is that some of the people that
>praxians oppose do become chaotic. Why hasn't Pavis sprouted a tentacle
>yet?
(snip)
Is it
>because praxians don't really oppose them, or is it because you are wrong?
Oppose may not be the best choice of word. Substitute 'Other' for oppose. Yes, you're using it as a verb. I other you. He was othered. etc.
Praxians seem to draw a somewhat fine distinction between 'evil' and enemies. Pentans and Pavis seem to qualify as enemies, but not as evil, which is chaotic. When you brand one of your own as a traitor to your culture, and the reason for misfortune or defeat or humiliation, that's not an enemy, but an evil.
>
>>Why? Well, because it makes sense to me, in a kind of poetic way.
>>And that is all the defense I can give you.
>
>If your belief was true, then *some* non-chaotic enemies of the praxians
>during the last 1600 years must have turned chaotic due to praxian
>opposition. Has this ever happened? Can you find any shred of evidence of
>this in the Gloranthan corpus? If not, then your belief doesn't make
>Gloranthan sense, even in a poetic sense.
A witch accusation is made against a member of your own culture, remember? Its the dirty work that we do at home. That is why it works. It would manifestly never work against a member of another culture
>Praxian culture may be the *effect* of chaos and dependent upon the
>presence of chaos to maintain the institutions of praxian culture. But the
>*cause* of chaos? The mind boggles.
Chaos is not an essential. It is at best a description of a phenomena that cannot be understood. There is not a stream of Chaos energy that runs from the Outer Void to everyone with a Chaotic Feature; it is not necessary to have the Chaos Rune in one's cult write-up in order to interact with chaos.
In the end, the Great Compromise may be nothing more than an Orlanthi Myth to explain the presence of Chaos in the world (It is here, so the gods must have allowed it to be so). The presence of Chaos in a closed system implies that Chaos is everywhere and connected to everything within that system. Is it really so revolutionary to base a mechanic on this idea?
DWRT
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