> Hey, I've got a name (and I am not cited often).
I was responding to Julian's question, which was raised by a passing mention in a post of yours. I did not think I was initiating a debate with you (or anyone), and thought it was more worthwhile to answer Julian's question speedily than to re-read the preceding 'N' digests to find out precisely whose post had prompted it. Especially with a wriggling baby on my lap, with her own ideas about my priorities.
I am delighted to say that Jose's posts on the West and Malkionism are among the most congruent with my own, and usually cause me great delight and happiness. This, alas, means that I don't feel any urge to engage in a Baumgartner/Metcalfe-fest of citation and counter-citation. I am deeply sorry if this has made Jose feel neglected.
> Most Malkioni would not understand [Nick's] explanation.
I agree completely that many Malkioni, hearing my "mainstream" explanation, would yawn and ignore it, happily continuing to believe that everyone else worships other, lesser gods while they worship the original and best God (whose loyal followers regularly smite the ungodly heathen). But I was trying to give an educated Malkioni explanation, not a fumbling mishmash of confused notions and misunderstandings.
> And that leaves the whole henotheist cultures to explain vis a vis
> their gods.
A mainstream Malkioni explanation (Rokari and Hrestoli) is, by definition, not a Henotheist one. The Rokari and Hrestoli would happily agree that the Henotheists (and all other forms of Stygian) have lapsed into monstrous pagan heresies, worship False Gods and Demons and the Devil Himself, and deserve whatever sticky end they come to as a result.
> As for the False Gods, I always thought they were a GL propaganda tool,
> that remains among certain scholars as fact.
I'm happy to believe this, too.
Nils and Simon raise the Buddhist parallel (seeing Malkioni Saints as Bodhisattvas reaching back from Solace to help poor old us). This is very apposite, and I am delighted to embrace it.
(I note from the most recent Digest that Peter is grumbling about this self-same notion. I am unsure whether this is an additional recommendation for it :-)
His quibble does seem better addressed to Buddhists than Malkioni, in any event.
> Hrestolism did not catch up as a religion (and Hrestol became widely
known)
> until his bodily ascension confirmed the righteousness of Hrestol's Joy of
> the Heart.
I think we have to distinguish two "Hrestolisms", here.
Hrestol instituted Knighthood (that special, sacrificial role which stands outside the caste structure and includes skills and arts from all four of the Malkioni castes), and this was practiced in the kingdom of Seshneg after his banishment. The Serpent Kings had Hrestoli Knights among their followers, and Prince Hrestol was widely known and acclaimed as saviour of the Kingdom of Seshneg, even while he was in exile on Brithos, the Vadeli Isles and finally Sogolotha Mambrola.
Hrestol also gave us the Joy of the Heart, through his martyrdom -- the proven certainty that sins can be forgiven if committed in a good cause, that transgressing the written Law of Malkionism does not irrevocably lead to loss of Solace. In a nutshell, adding compassion to the Wizards' legalism. (And refuting the notion of Brithini intellectual supremacy, to boot!) This notion took off in Akem (with Hrestol's glorious ascension into Solace), and later spread back to Seshnela as the True Hrestol Way.
> Before his death the only followers he had were the few knights he had
> instaured in Seshnela.
Again, I believe that Knights continued to be made in Seshnela after Hrestol's exile, IMO -- but would they have called themselves his "followers"? I don't know. They are servants of the Serpent King, and the Kingdom of Seshneg, and the great goddess Seshna Likita, etc... not devoted worshippers of holy Prince Hrestol (or tragic Prince Hrestol, or any such formulation).
> A man who is working as a judge among the Vadeli would have trouble
> finding the time to be a charismatic religious leader.
What makes you assume that "Judge of the Vadeli" is not the title of a charismatic religious leader? I am sure the "work" done was moral and religious in nature, not a 9-to-5 job at the Vadeli Courthouse!
> All the sects but the brithini and the god forgoti have Hrestol in a
> place almost as important as Malkion. So Joy of the Heart went uncontested
> by anyone in the West.
Other, of course, than the Brithini, who are *extremely* important in any examination of First Age Malkionism. (And, indeed, subsequent Malkionism).
BTW, "god forgoti" -- yeuch!!!
> That's the greatness of Hrestol.
He is praised for different reasons by different sects, IMO. The Castle Coast sect of Old Seshnelan Chivalry remembers him as the First Knight; the Loskalmi Idealists affect to see his life as a moral example of upwardly-mobile progression (!?!); the Perfecti of Loskalm see him as a Complete Human Being; the Sedalpists see him as a tragic figure, damned for taking up murderous arts; many other "takes" are possible. It is the variousness of interpretations of Hrestol's significance that endears him to me.
(But then, I did enjoy James Branch Cabell's "The Silver Stallion" rather too much, and happily recommend it to any Digesters interested in the confusing growth of messianic redemptive cults).
> Yelm has, I believe, a stable orbit?
Sunstop.
Your move.
(Or is this another theory that ignores Godtime and mythology?)
Nick
:::: web: <http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Nick_Brooke>
End of The Glorantha Digest V5 #604
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