Re: The Glorantha Digest V5 #609

From: Simon Phipp <>
Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 17:54:43 +0000

Philip Hibbs asks:

> Anybody know anything about Arroin? If only I had a MIG...

As far as I can remember, writing at work, Arroin was the Son of Chalana Arroy and was a powerful Healing Spirit. He was a friend of the Elves and was one of the Defenders of the Forest, alongside High King Elf and Yelmalio. Unfortunately, he was continually attacked, beaten and broken. His powers were eroded as he was smashed into pulp until he lost most of the healing powers he once held. Now, he is worshipped in a subcult of Chalana Arroy which concentrates on the non-magical sides of Healing - First Aid, Treat Poison, growing Healing Plants, Treat Disease. There are several Quests involving Arroin, mostly along the lines of "Arroin is captured, we must rescue him before he is badly injured, oops too late, never mind he is still alive (just), let's take him to his mum". He is the source of a great deal of the Healing Crystals knocking around. In RQ2, Arroin was the god of the Rune Lords of Chalana Arroy, but this has been changed for RQ3, for the better.

>>P. Metcalfe
>>The key factoid that I would emphasize here is that the mainstream
>>Malkioni also have this same tradition that stretches back to the
>>Kingdom of Logic.  The Brithini and the Malkioni Churches are
>>really sibling creeds rather than the Brithini being ancestral to
>>the Malkioni.

But. most of the current Malkioni follow Hrestol's Way which is different from Malkion's Way, so they cannot really be thought of as Orthodox Malkioni. I think of the Brithini culture as Uncles to the Malkioni Father and Hrestoli Son, related but slightly removed. After all, the Brithini have never acknowledged the Invisible God, even though they claim to follow Malkion's Laws.

Julian Lord:

> Really: Is Saintliness different from or the same as
> either Enlightenment or Illumination or both?

Saintliness is different from Illumination and Enlightenment in the same way that Fish is different from Sugar. They share nothing in common at all.

You could say that all three are the province of Mystics, but that's as far as it goes.

Saintliness is the willingness and ability to help those less fortunate or able to enter Solace using your personal intervention rather than their own efforts. That is what the Malkioni Saints do - they allow those who would not be able to enter Solace to hang onto the Saints' coat tails and are dragged into Solace.

> Would a Saintly chaotic be thought of in orthodox
> (there's that word again!) malkionism as being
> primarily Saintly or primarily Chaotic? Or, are
> Saintliness and Chaos mutually exclusive?
> (Borists apart.)

Malkioni tend not to embrace those of a Chaotic Persuasion. In any case, Chaotics tend not to follow the mainstream Malkioni Laws and therefore will not be able to enter Solace or help others enter Solace. There is a big diference in being Saintly and being a Saint.

> Also: What is the difference between Holiness
> and Saintliness in Glorantha?

Holiness is being true to one's faith. Saintliness is being true to the Malkioni faith, in my opinion.

> PS There can, I think, be living Saints, as the
> Apostles certainly were in RW, at least when filled
> with the Holy Spirit.

Absolutely, while they were alive they could help people to Solace. However, after they die they have been there themselves which makes it easier for them to show the way.

Richard Develyn:

> What I'm trying to figure out is whether myths represent events in
> the past, or whether they reflect the needs of communities in the
> present.

Myths in Glorantha represent events in the past. However, they also reflect the needs of the community. When a need of the community is not reflected in the mythology, Heroes will HeroQuest and create the myths which are needed.

Simon Hibbs:

> >The Orlanthi on the other hand have maintained a relatively stable
> >mythology for a considerable period and display a commensurate
> >resilience to the forces of history. They adapt to the world,
> >rather than trying to force it to a shape they impose upon it. I
> >believe this is what Arkat meant when he said 'No heroquesting
> >without humility'.

But, the Orlanthi Quested in the First Age to change the nature of their deities, integrating the myths of the Theyalans and Pelorians. They also made enormous HeroQuests to change the world.

In the Second Age they incorporated Draconic thought patterns and even created new forms of Orlanth. They HeroQeusted to destroy the God Learbers mythically.

In the Third Age they destroyed the Red Moon and changed the world.

So much for adapting to the world.

In the God Time, the Orlanthi deities were responsible for violently changing most of the World Order, even more than Chaos.

Peter Metcalfe:

> Julian Lord:
> >Our words cannot describe the Spirit Plane.
> Rubbish. The Spirit Plane can be and has been described
> using words be it the 'featureless grey plane' to the
> Skald's singing of Orlanth's Hall.

Exactly. The Spirit Plane can, and has been, described. Shamans, mystics and Spirits can see it in its full glory, the rest can see it less fully, but it can still be described.

Simon Phipp

End of The Glorantha Digest V5 #610

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