>>I'm skeptical about calling the Assasins and the Knights Templars
>>'secret' societies as they were quite visible in their time.
>However their constitution, methods and agenda were scrupulously
>concealed from non-members. Many 'secret' societies have a two tier
>structure in which a secret 'inner' society is concealed within a
>publicly 'open' society, which often confuses the issue.
We know what the Templars and the Assasins believed. They did not maintain a secret society within an open society except in fiction.
>>Also what do you mean by 'notionaly'? That they were not Muslims or
>>Catholics?
>The Templars were disolved by order of the Pope for heresy (political
>motives notwithstanding),
If you know there were political motivations (namely Philip the Fair was short of pocket money) behind their dissolution then why do you imply they were not catholic?
>and from what we know of the Hashishim their
>brand of Islam was far from orthodox even by the most extreme Shiia
>standards. What I mean is that their external religious credentials are
>arguably at odds with their internal practices, or what we know of them.
The standard tales that most people know about the Assasins 'internal practices' (ie hashish consumption) derive from medieval christian fiction. The Muslim accounts are quite different.
The Assasins belonged to the Sevener branch of the Shi'a which had also been the faith of the Fatimid rulers of Egypt. When Saladin overthrew the Fatimids and set up a Sunni adminstraition, these guys were hacked off and sent devout people out to destabilize Sunni governments everywhere with big knifes in the head.
To describe them as being 'far from orthodox even by the most extreme Shiia standards' is IMO betraying ignorance about some other sects such as the Alawites and the Druzes. The Alawites claim to be shit'ites but have some weird doctrines (some which are allegedly pre-muslim) whereas the Druzes believe that a Caliph was Divine.
Philip Hibbs:
>>I'm skeptical about calling the Assasins and the Knights Templars
>>'secret' societies as they were quite visible in their time.
>I think the Templar example could be correct - yes, everyone knew they
>existed, but no-one knew they worshipped a severed head called Baphomet,
>spat on crosses, and invented the Tarot deck as a story-telling aid. If
>you believe that stuff, that is.
One can easily find stories to support claims that the Vatican, Jews and the World Bank are secret societies. I prefer to reserve the label for such organisations such as the Decembrists, the Tongs/Triads and the Benandanti.
>They are possibly an analogy for some Arkati
>sub-cults, they profess to be good honest worshippers, but are in fact
>illuminated 'deviants', or at least that's what their non-illuminated
>fellows would call them. IMO.
I think all Arkati cultists are 'illuminated' (bear in mind that this is not Nysaloran Illumination). When they seek out Gbaji to destroy him, they mostly encounter other Arkati Cults (who return the favour). This is the major reason why the Cult of Arkat is splintered in Ralios.
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