Random fates

From: Xavier SPINAT <spinat_at_poly.polytechnique.fr>
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 15:25:25 +0100


Well, on th subject of Luck/Fate, there would be too many of the=  recent mails to quote, so I'll try to express my views without actually=  replying to one or another.

*What is luck? Does it exist in Glorantha?

Well, first, there's obviously two meaning in this word.=20 The first of all, on which I think everyone agrees, is randomness. It does exists in Glorantha. A good proof of this existence is the=  fact that most of the known game-system use dices... :) (sorry about=  that, I know some just don't use dices) Of course a lot of things (in any world) has to be considered as=  random.=20
But, depending on how you think the world works, you can say randomness=  is part of the nature of the way things go OR you can say randomness=  results from the imperfect knowledge we have of the situation.=20 When you throw a dice, you can think that the result is intrinsically=  random or you can think that, if you somehow had a way to compute=  all the little parameters that will in some way have an influence=  on the result, then you would be able to determine exacty the outcome,=  but since such a computation is impossible, it's more practical=  to consider the outcome as random.
I think that the difference between those points of view is not what=  we have to discuss here. Whether probabilities are the TRUE model=  or just the best we can achieve is not a very easy debate.

Let's rather talk about luck's other aspect: good/bad luck. It's somehow the negation of randomness in fact. If you consider=  that luck (as the outcome of random events) is somehow sentient,=  then you negate the meaning of true randomness, since everything=  becomes the outcome of some will.
If some people are "lucky" and others "unlucky" forever, then it=  avails to the same thing as fate, since there's no more randomness=  in it. Luck, as a control over randomness, is not really the opposite=  of fate.
I can understand that some people believe in lucky charms (how many=  players have their "lucky dices"!!). Superstitions about bad luck=  or good fortune are numerous. But what's the role of all this in=  Glorantha?
Well, I think superstitions are much more related to spirits than=  to "just luck". The people call upon gods, or heroes, or just spirits=  to enhance their odds and somehow to "fight" randomness and luck.=  People rely much more readily on fate than on luck, since one is=  liable and faithful while the other is treacherous and fickle. Luck is not a very popular rune. See how many gods are related to=  it. Consider that true randomness is somehow related to Chaos and=  you'll have an idea of how people can think of it.=20 "Luck" has to be blind and impartial or cannot be "Luck". If you've=  been really lucky once, for no reason, then you somehow feel that=  you have more chances to be unlucky the next time. Somehow "luck"=  is something you cannot trust. With "luck", you never know how long=  good things will last...

*What about Fate?

=46ate is safer. If you're fated to do something, you somehow can=  rely on it. Well, it's written somewhere, it WILL happen. Fate is=  the effect of some strange, twisted but yet implacable will. Even=  if this will is not explainable or rationnal, it is something which=  allows you do do some serious and long-term planning. Death is a good example of this. Everyone knows you have to die.=  It's common knowledge. It's a sure fact on which you can base your=  life, because, well, it's not gonna change just for you: that's=  the way things are.
=46ate is something you have to accept once and for all. That's it. Well, as you might have guessed, IMO Fate is very depressing.

=46ate/Luck are opposed and both necessary in Glorantha. With Luck comes the possibility of freedom and hope that things can=  somehow get better.
With Fate comes the possibility of safety and hope that things WILL=  get better.

You cannot live with either pure randomness or complete pre-determinism.

*Well, what's the point of all this for my players? What's all this=
 debate got to do with my campaign?

It depends, of course, on how you play, but I often make the Luck/Fate=  issue the center of my campaign.
I'm often surprised by the way players react to this. Give some hints of prophecies. Somehow, your characters are fated=  to win. Is that really encouraging? Of course not, because it just=  means that Fate (the GM) is going to manipulate everybody to make=  sure this happens. It's not fun for the players and it's certainly=  no good news to the characters: they have no choice. In the other hand, if it is clear that Luck only will decide the=  outcome of a battle, whatever the odds, it's not satisfactory for=  the PCs either: what's their role in all this...

I enjoy giving my PCs a lot of false omens or of self-enforcing predictions.=  Sometimes they feel awfully manipulated, yet they managed to break=  free of the GM's planning...=20
sometimes they feel that they where very lucky (rolling an unexpected=  high number of criticals, for example) but discover that the outcome=  was exactly what the GM had planned...

I think the Luck/Fate has a lot to do with the game, with the "destiny"=  of adventurers.

So, IMO, to think there's no luck in Glorantha is a weird POV. With no luck, no game session will ever really make sense. What's=  the point for the players to play if everything is planned: they'd=  rather just co-write a novel (which can be fine too). Luck/randomness=  is a way to ensure that not everything, not every event is the result=  of a will...=20

*What's the relationship between magic and Luck/Fate? between heroquest=
 and Luck/Fate? between the gods and Luck/Fate?

Th usual spirit magic is definitively not some "luck" spell IMO:=  it's a "real" physical help and not some "probabilistic" manipulation. The way I play it, some Luck/Fate magic exist. The first Luck magic I invented was the usual: you get to re-roll=  some dices.
But I disliked this, because it's exactly the opposite of randomness. All this "dice-controlling" magic is now rather Fate magic to me.

I then tried to have some measure of the player's luck: the way I=
 did it was, when you want, you can reroll a dice until you got a=
 satisfactory result. This gave you some kind of "bad luck" pool,=
 which the GM could use whenever he thought it appropriate, forcing=  you to re-roll again, but this time keeping the worst result. This=  thing had some kind of "averaging" property that felt more "random". But I'm not completely satisfied with this solution. What I do know is that I make "luck-oriented" people roll for many=  things, making they subject to many random outcomes. Like bad/good=  surprise-encounters, bod/good reaction of people to their outfit,=  name, voice,... I just highly increased the number of "unlikely=  events", good AND bad, happening to (and around) them. =46or the "fate-oriented" characters, I both enable them to have=  some control over the randomness of rolls. The control is always=  stronger if they committ themselves in advance (usually, at the=  beginning of the session, I asked them what they think they WILL=  do today... big fight, good encounter, exceptionnal bargain,...=  and if the situation arises, they get "one better success-level"=  -failure becomes success, success becomes special,...). To balance=  this, I also predict them some "dark" events in which they "shall"=  fail (or in which their opponents "shall" win). Somehow, those characters=  develop some sense of doom...

I somehow encourage also a "mastery-oriented" tendency, which I feel=  more rewarding for the characters. (I like the triple opposition=  of Luck/Fate/Mastery)
I somehow think that good heroquesting is usually a good re-enactement=  of well-established myths (which sounds awfully like Fate to me)=  and sometimes the discovery of "a new way" (which is either Mastery=  if it was intended and certainly Luck otherwise)... I don't mean=  to describe heroquesting so crudely, of course, but some connections=  are obvious. Just the name "Masters of Luck and Death", for example,=  sound very much like the three powers in one quest to me.

Gods, well, they are rather cautious about Luck/Fate. They prefer=  much more to rely on the Mastery rune, obviously, since much more=  gods are related to it than to the two others. I would say that=  gods are more on the side of Fate than Luck, but I'm not sure that=  means a lot...

Sorry about that way-too-long mail, but as you can guess, this issue=  is certainly the one I like to study the most.


Powered by hypermail