> Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 16:04:57 EDT
> From: <TTrotsky_at_aol.com>
> Subject: Is Glorantha Dying?
>
> Brian Tickler:
>
> <<, fan-published materials fading fast>>
>
> I find some difficulty squaring this statement with the fact that more
> fan-published materials are being released this year than at any time in the
> past (Enclosure, Questlines, TotRM, Tradetalk, Drastic: Darkness, Book of
> Tentacles). In what sense, exactly, are they fading?
My orginal post was confusing here...I was really referring to the fan-published materials *on the digest*...the drop in output from the "occasional" posters as opposed to the Digest Elite[tm], in my mind a sign of a strong Glorantha core group, but with fence-sitters starting to peel off...
> <<All these factors point towards a dwindling fan base, a seemingly
> impossible result given the loyalty of RQ/Glorantha fans through the lean
> years, but nevertheless, although many digesters will no doubt deny it, the
> promise of Hero Wars is not enough to sustain this community...people want
> RuneQuest *and* Glorantha, together...>>
>
> Clearly that's what you want. I couldn't care less what system
> officially-published Glorantha uses, so long as its not too dreadful. Which of
> us is more typical? Which of us will be more typical after Hero Wars comes out
> and has the potential to draw in new players? I don't know, and I suspect,
> neither do you.
You're right...all I know about is from direct interaction with other players and what I read here for the most part. Hm, well, the 4-5 play groups I personally know/participate in, and the 20-25 RQ/Glorantha players I have associated with have all stop playing Glorantha-based games. I guess this could be just a fluke, but given that the number *is* 100% and the fact that these groups are mostly in the Bay Area or elsewhere in California, a stronghold of Gloranthan gaming no matter how you look at it, I feel my fears are somewhat justified.
Let me ask you a question...if you had $30 to your name (until next payday) and walked into a store and saw the following 2 products on sale, which would you buy first?
Let's assume here that you haven't photocopied the Pavis boxed set. Ok, maybe you'll choose #1. More people will choose #2, IMO.
> Brian Tickler mentioned
>
> > fan-published materials fading fast
>
> Hmm, at Glorantha-Con VII this May you could get Enclosure 2 (88 pp.), the
> latest issues of Tales of the Reaching Moon (66 pp.) and RQ Adventures, and
> the RQ-Con IV Conpendium (sic; 83 pp.). At the con I saw Tradetalk 3; my
> copy arrived a couple days ago.
>
> Obviously you must be referring to the quality, not quantity of
> fan-published materials. As editor of Enclosure, I'd be interested in
> hearing your specific complaints, so we can make the next issue better.
> I haven't updated mine lately, but will remedy this soon.
>
> David Dunham <mailto:dunham_at_pensee.com>
Sorry, as I mentioned above, I didn't mean to imply that all fan-based materials were going away...I was talking about the digest, and yes, I've seen all the material appearing since my original post...glad I could be of assistance :)...
> Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 22:27:19 +0100
> From: "Nick Brooke" <Nick_Brooke_at_compuserve.com>
> Subject: Re: Death of Gloranthan Gaming
>
> Brian Tickler's analysis is, of course, correct. If only we could all
> contribute as much as he does to keeping Gloranthan gaming alive, there'd
> surely be no problems whatsoever.
Well, Nick, I'm glad you know all about my contributions to the Gloranthan community...as I recall, our last discussion ended with you telling me how Chaosium supported any efforts to publish fan-based materials and that I was foolish for thinking otherwise. That was, oh, at least a year ago I'd guess.
Ironically enough, I went out and got a commercial-class web site, started overhauling a couple of 100+ page scenarios, and submitted my ideas for the site to Chaosium and Avalon Hill for approval. Avalon Hill gave theirs within 2 weeks...I'm still waiting for Rob Heinsoo to respond with anything other than "I'll get back to you later, wait for Issaries Inc."...oh, wait a minute, that's right, my most recent follow-up turned up the fact that he lost my original request.
Luckily, I've since moved on to webmaster and co-manage a Quake 2 clan...and I must say it's nice to now be contributing to a community that doesn't make you jump through hoops, berating you while you try to do it with no info whatsoever. Sure, I'd already wasted a few hundred hours on the RQ/Glorantha website effort, but at least I didn't waste the 1000 or so hours I diverted to Quake 2. Strange though, I still feel a little bitter about not being able to contribute those hours to this community, but hey, I'll get over it...people like you make it so much easier...
Martin Laurie:
> I like a good fight, and hey, sometimes, on really rare occasions, I'm
> wrong and deserve derision. Besides, don't see you writing in much
> Brian...
There's plenty of reasons for that, recently pointed out quite well by newbies and oldtimers alike.
> From: Julian Lord <julian.lord_at_hol.fr>
> > - - LARPS proliferating, RPG campaigns dying off
>
> last I heard, the CCG assault on the RPG market was relenting, and people were
> returning to RPGs. The opposite of what you say, in fact. LARPs are, I think, a
> marginal phenomenon.
I'll agree on the last point...but just because CCGs are dwindling doesn't mean RPGs are now ascendant...both markets are in freefall, IMO.
> > and although
> > remaining Glorantha-only fans may be fanatical, in the gaming business
> > quality of customers means nothing beyond a certain point; it's quantity of
> > customers that counts.
>
> Quantity is Robin's, Greg's, Issaries' and the Fates' job.
Let's just say that past history here does not lend itself towards confidence...
> Anyway, the international sales figures for RQ were, in fact, high enough for it
> to be viable. It continues to sell, even now.
I'll admit that Hero Wars will sell, but it will be as a heroquesting supplement to RQ...new consumers seem, well, unlikely...
Martin Laurie brought up other rules-lite games and their success...these games succeed because they have easy rules and easy "worlds" together...everyone already knows the basics of vampires, etc. Glorantha is not easy. It had a good "complexity match" in RQ.
Glorantha is a great world, however, it is not good enough to stand on its own as HW will force it to do. Find me a copy of a Glorantha-based work of fiction in any bookstore that's not in the gaming section and I could be persuaded to change my mind... :)
> Especially with people like us to support it ;-)
I'll continue to support it, but that doesn't mean I have to like marching off the cliff...
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