Thanks for helping me redirect the digest downward to fun and Glorantha as opposed to a rules debate about an unreleased set of rules.
Have Gay Humakti become Received Wisdom, cool. You should see the way I was fragged for saying this some years ago [Lore, remember?]..
Babeester Gor is a more likely Theyalan gay
cult I would have thought, as is any cult with the
'Gor' appendix.
My views on Hsunchen are definitely not
'in game', although a Brithini philosopher
may have pondered such views at some time.
I agree wholly that the myths of each group of hsunchen, including those no longer seen as such will be totally individual.=20
A clan/culture focussed approach to Glorantha should emphasise this diversity far more than the individualistic approach we have previously had.
I suspect we will have games with very varied shades of mythology, culture and social structures all through the=20 Theyalan lands in a few years.
The comments re L5R clanbooks echo the successful WW 'clan'=20 books for their WoD books, and also to some extent FASA's books detailing military units for their Battletech background. I=20 think this would be a great format for Gloranthan material, and may be a good vehicle for fan publishing in future as well as 'official' publications. If each clanbook also had a map, and some local geography/personalities it would make a good 'pick up and play a clan' model
Vampyres
Talking of diversity, I am interested in the Vampire=20 thread since I am reading a book called 'Vampyres' by Christopher Frayling which is essentially a work of literary analysis mapping the development of=20 the various strands of vampire literaure into the synthesis that Bram Stoker made in 'Dracula'.
It's a read that some will find a little dry, but it does show that in literary terms the vampire has four main archetypes;
The Satanic Lord (modelled on Lord Byron by=20 his ex doctor Polidori)
The Femme Fatale (including lamia and succubi)
The Folkloric Vampire (the Mittel Europe folklore tales of vampires and the Austro Hungarian official reports about them)
The Unseen Force (often a non corporeal force,=20 feeding off mental energies more than blood)
He also talks of the 'camp' vampire, a form that satirised both 1890's London gay clubland and also the mainstream genre.
It's a useful model, whether it's valid or not,=20 since it deconstructs the vampire cliche into it's component parts and allows us as epicures of the fantastic to start to break the vampire monomyth down in Glorantha.
The sorcerer-vampire, the classic Vivamorti,=20
fits nicely with the Byronic vampire,=20
aristocratic and aloof with both immense
sexual chemistry and disdain for the=20
women who flock around him like moths to
the flame. These educated and incredibly old
sorcerers can be suave or cranky, but
can be played very close to the well known
cliche. These are the 'pale complexioned'=20
and well dressed vampires of aristocratic=20
civilisation. Whilst Stoker probably
merged shapeshifting into Dracula from
works about werewolves, these will be the
mages powerful enough to be able to shapeshift,
mesmerise and fade like mist in the dawn.
Such vampires may well not be affected at all
by folkloric remedies, they may laugh at garlic,
crosses and holy water. Their greatest power
comes from their charisma, the fact that their
vistims cannot help but admiring them even=20
as they quake with fear.=20
These will be common in the West and
Carmania, some will be have a small villa=20
near Glamour, where some may have become rather
camp and amusing members of Lunar society.
They can be heroic, liberating oppressed
peoples, or villains oppressing their
subjects with mass murder and torture.
Both Vlad Tepes, Dracula and Byron himself
make good models.
The 'Femme Fatale' *could* be seen as also
Vivamorti, preferably in leather with a=20
whip and a serious dominatrix kick. However
in furtherance of diversity I would suggest
that this archetype is not the soulless
vampire of Vivamort but more like the=20
lamia or succubus (ie still with the dominatrix
kick) but less obviously non-human.=20
Usually aristocratic and powerful these
women prey on weak men and may or may not
be dead. In Gloranthan terms these women
may be corrupt Earth cultists, evoking
the 'Blood is Life' motif to extend their own
lives and beauty by feeding off weak and
beguiled men. These would seem to fit very well
into the Lunar heartland where strong=20
femme fatales could exist with equality in=20
a society with both a strong female role. I=20
could also see such vampires in Kralorela,=20
maybe Esrolia, and any civilised but not
overly patriarchal society. This vampire may
well not cause her victims to become vampires,=20
she is a parasite and need not be overly
magical at all. These vampires have no=20
pattern of shapechanging or great magical
prowess, they rely on their seductive mastery
of men. They are often pale skinned, deceptively
frail and alluring, exercising their mastery
and dominance once the victim is caught.
[Erzsebet Bazory who is rumoured to have killed hundreds of virgins just to bathe in their blood is a rather excessive model, but you get the drift.]
The 'Folkloric Vampire' is a crude beast. Here
the main theme is contagion and the spread of
the 'taint' of vampirism. These vampires
are crude and unthinking, driven by bloodlust
alone, often preying on their own kinfolk
first. Once an outbreak occurs then fear
and terror will spread rapidly, unchecked=20
whole communities are contaminated, rising
from their fresh graves to vilently attack
their kin and neighbours. Only the strong=20
hand of the church and the state can prevent
this, digging up corpses, beheading and burning
them. These vampires can be driven back with
garlick, holy symbols and other herbal remedies.
They have no charisma, they will not charm
their victims and will attack sleeping cattle=20
as much as sleeping children and adults.
These vampires are not pale nor beautiful, they
are ruddy of skin, appear violently healthy=20
and are as ugly and malformed as they were or
were not in life.
Since the metaphor these vampires represent is
contagion then they may actually be the product
of just such a thing. Malia may have birthed=20
just such a terrible contagion which is spread
by the blood and animates the corpses even into
death, biting, eating and spreadin the contagion.
[Oddly enough one cure was seen to be to drink the=20
blood of the vampire that bit you!]
These vampires may not even be dead but had
their minds destroyed and become nocturnal=20
beasts, apparently 'dead' in daylight and=20
'alive' at night. This could be the 'terminal'
state caused by Brain Fever. These vampires
do not have any magical powers at all, they
are simple animalistic and brutal. They
don't shapechange nor have great powers
beyond supernatural strength.
Such kin based, crude and disease based
vampires would be well placed in the Orlanthi
belt, in Sartar, Tarsh, Ralios, settled Prax,=20
but also could break out in any primitive
kin based society such as Lodrilli peasantry
in Darra Happa or the small Island communities=20
of the Far East.=20
Since the Austro Hungarian Empire and other
Earth states campaigned vigoroiusly to=20
stamp out the outbreaks of vampirism, seeing
it as mass hysteria and/or a religous
reaction to real plague outbreaks, putting
forward strong rationalist explanations
and reigning in the power of the Church to
dig up and burn corpses, some states in
Glorantha may also have a very rational approach
to these vampires, regarding them as a public
health problem.
The 'Unseen Force' is a type of vampirism=20
somewhat more to do with the parasitic=20
draining of vitality but also ideas and
mental aptitude. This comes from writers
such as Poe and O'Brien and may be best
described as a 'psychic sponge'. These
creatures often have no physical form and
are more attached to a place within which
they can leach from their victims.
In Gloranthan terms these may well be ghosts,
and a subtler reworking of RQ wraiths may
be a good archetype to start from. Given
the focus on 'mental' vampirism and ghosts then=20
Thanatari would be well placed to associate
with or become such vampires.
Since such entities are asocial and yet linked
to place, they could exist anywhere and may
not be human at all. [Lovecraftian Mythos
tales often use such a device.]
If you think of Dracula you'll see that
these four strands, plus the werewolf and
a few more are all in the book, but isn't
it fun to break it down? I'll not even
mention the chapter on the haemosexuality
of all this or the pschoanalysis of
the Count but that's also fun.
I hope that these four archetypes will allow
people to build diverse and new vampires for
their gaming. Frayling argues that all four
are present in Stoker's Dracula, and indeed
published the research notes that Stoker used
along with a host of other vampire tales=20
from the 18th century onwards. Frayling's
book is a great read, even if you don't
care about literary criticism, and the source
material is inspiring for a variety of=20
vampire tales in gaming.
I have not included any rules suggestions
since that is actually off-topic on this digest
[anyone remember that?] and in the bright new
rules-light future that will be totally
irrelevant anyway!
Vampyres: Lord Byron to Count Dracula
Christopher Frayling
Faber and Faber
ISBN 0-571-16792-6
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