Me>> Since Simon Hibbs confirms your story on particulars, I'll allow
>> it. But this isn't evidence of a overtly materialistic inclination
>> as such [...]
>That's good of you. But if you accept Greg's perogative to decide
>what the beliefs of the "Dayzatar" cult are, does it seem entirely
>infeasible to lend him some credence when he says, in the very
>same utterence "They're mystic materialists"?
Because most of my argument was stated before you said that Greg had said it and then you immediately qualified Greg said it with the statement that :
[...] I should probably mention that this statement preceded
FGS "reorganising" the Dayzatar cult, hence my equivocation
over Buseri/Dayzatari.
Hence I do not consider it set in stone that the starseers are overtly materialistic. Nor do they equivocate to heaven (but rather on both sides of the scale against either scale...). But I guess the core of resistance within me to the proposition of materialism for the starseers is that it requires that they view the stars as being moved by a prime mover or impersonal laws or suchlike. I would have thought they would have a far more spiritual approach as they seek to discover the links between the Sky World and this World (glorantha).
>> Afterall Dayzatar is beyond the Sky so what good is watching
>> the Heavens?
>Cos it's a recognised mystic technique.
I would have thought that stars as being part of the observable world would not be the object of study by the mystic. Case in point: the Tales #16 article on the red moon. We have the Materialist describing what can be seen on the moon and the mystic saying 'Nooo! It's all lies!! Sedenya is within you!!!!' or words to that effect.
>> In particular the said event occurs after the Dragon's Awakening
>> Shudder of 1051
>It does? Only mention I have of this is G:G;2, which doesn't date
>it at all.
But 'Exarchs moving the Star' is mentioned after the statement about the Dragons Awakening Shudder (1051 ST) and before the statement about the War in Heaven (1120 ST). Every other sentence in the relevant paragraph is in chronological order (from the Closing of the Oceans to Godunya's enthronement). So I think it probable to conclude that the Star Trek took place after 1051 ST.
>> When one considers that the Blue Moon Cult was influential in the
>> offing of the EWF, one is reminded of the Pelandan belief that
>> has the Blue Moon and Lokarnos/Wagon as the offspring of Black
>> Dendara.
> One is now -- thanks for the "reminder", Peter. ;-)
The relevant source is the Entekosiad (green pages version) p63 and footnotes.
>>> The EWF is effectively "interposed" between Kralorela and
>>> the GLers.
Me>> Like the Maginot Line was interposed between France and Germany IMO.
>You're assuming that when Greg said "God Learners", he meant the
>NDR. I took him to mean the MSE...
But the NDR was initially part of the God Learner movement when they invaded. It's anachronistic to speak of the Middle Sea Empire at this time for that wasn't founded until 789, some twenty years after Kralorela had been conquered. And in any case, the EWF was founded well before the proto-NDR set foot in Kralorela.
Me>> Given that Kralori efforts against
>> Sheng Seleris and Vormain have been marked by such abysmal failures
>Please "remind" me once more -- I thought that the tradition was
>for Vorumain to fail abysmally to invade Kralorela, rather than vice
>versa?
"Except for these tidbits, the internal history of Vormain
in nearly unknown. In world history the island's existance
is marked primarily by the disappearance of those who attempt
to learn about it.
Most losses are Kralorelan. The most spectacular was the
great army, including many Praxian barbarians with their
wild beats, which drowned in an unseasonal hurricane a half
mile of the Vormain shore."
Missing Lands p53.
End of The Glorantha Digest V6 #124
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