Re : Gloranthan constants on souls and chaos

From: Simon Hibbs <simonh_at_msi-uk.com>
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 19:57:45 +0100


Chris Bell seems to have opend a very interesting, if yucky can of worms with this one.

It seems pretty common nowadays to say that it's all culturaly relative, and it's true that many Gloranthans don't rate cahos as their number one enemy. However in every case you'll find that it's because these gloranthans have little or no contact with it. Those that do know a lot about chaos know how trully apalling it realy is.

Most Dara Happans would shrug their shoulders if asked to say which was worse, a troll or a broo, but then I don't think Dara Happans generaly have much experience of fighting Broo, but are much more likely to have to fight Trolls (Blue Moon Plateau). Also they have a mythicaly based opposition to darkness.

Orlanthi have a lot of experience of fighting both broo and trolls and they have no doubts about which is worst. Trolls are basicaly no worse than any other predator. If they kill you they'll eat you, the same as a wolf or lion or anything else.

So, what is so bad about chaos? After all, is being impregnated by a broo any worse than being captured by a giant spider and cocooned up and injected with one of it's eggs?

When the spider kills you, at least you're properly dead. Your spirit goes on to the otherworld and you join your ancestors. The same happens if you die from broo impregnation, however the broo did two things to you that the spider didn't. The foirst is that the Broo _raped_ you. You were used as an object of sexual gratification, whereas the spider just used you as a host for some already fertilised eggs. Secondly, i think you lose something more than just life. Broo children take on some of the characteristics of their host - you literaly are their mother and thay share some of your life essence. Think about it. If your father was captured and raped by broo, the offspring of the union are your own brothers and sisters. The scorpion man ritual of rebirth is as bad too.

All the chaos gods can do somethign to you that is irreversible - you will never be whole again, not even in death. Vivamort cuts you off from the cycle of life and death forever and if your vampire form is destroyed then you devolve into oblivion. Thed steals away your reproductive essence and gives you horrors for sons. Thanatar steals your knowledge, wisdom and magic, gutting your mind untill there's nothing left but a hollow gibbering ghost.

Then there's the chance of being corrupted by chaos directly. Personaly I'll have no truck with this rubbish about cleansing chaos taints. Chaos is not of matter, spirit or the gods. No magic can contain, controll or manipulate it because magic is of glorantha and can only act on that wich is part of glorantha. You can use magic to manipulate matter that is infected with chaos, so you can kill chaos creatures with it or heal wounds inflicted by chaos, but you can't manipulate the chaos taint itself. Chaos existed before magic and is thus beyond it's power.

So how does chaotic magic work? Well, as I said magic can manipulate the material and spiritual form of glorantha, and if that spirit or mater is infected with chaos then the chaotic infection can be manipulated along with it. Of course doing so channels the chaotic essence through your own soul and so in doing so you are inevitably infected yourself. Tough.

The above is from a theist point of view, and perhaps it will serve for materialists also. So what of illumination? To the illuminate life and the afterlife are all part of the same thing. There is a cycle of birth and death, but ultimately what's the point? You're just a hamster on the cosmic treadmill. Trancendence is the key, yet it is awsomely difficult to attain. I don't think illuminates have a rose tinted view of chaos. They know and understand it's dangers, but the thing is they just don't care. To some of them, being stuck in the chain gang existance of mortal life (and death) is intolerable. Even oblivion is better than that. If existence without transcendence is meaningless, then the horror of nonexistence becomes no horror at all.

Not all illuminates go this way, only those which either have lost their faith in ever achieving transcendence at all (might as well go out with a bang). Or those who believe they might be able to use the awesome powers offered by chaos to help them along their way. It's a tough trick to pull off, and you have to be either desperate or foolish to try, but it might just work.

This is what the red goddes did, or had to do. Whether or not it does actuly work in the long run perhaps remains to be seen.

A few footnotes to the above :

> What are the views of the Orlanthi cultures,

see above

>Westerners

The universe is naturaly evolving from the predark towards solace. Becoming infected with chaos is thus going in the opposite direction. Chaos creatiures and those infected with chaos can never enter solace.

>Praxians, Doraddi, Teshnans, Fonritians

Pretty much as per Orlanthi and most other theists. Many of them may not have much experience of dealing with chaos though, so they may not rate it as a very immanent threat.

>Elder Races, of souls and the afterlife, on their terms?

Different for each.

>I'm of the feeling that Chaos is not a cultural belief, but a universal

>constant in Glorantha, although no doubt it's seen differently by
>different cultures.

True. Gloranthans don't have access to the rulebook and only stormbulls hace Sense Chaos, so whether something is chaotic or not is often a matter of guesswork. they learn by experience and their myths tell them much, but nobody's perfect and some chaos can be very beguiling.

>The issues concerning souls seem to be much more
>mutable. For example, Earth Cultures (Aldryami?) seem to believe in an

>identity-stripping form of reincarnation,

Aldryami don't have individual identities, that they are aware of or care about, anyway. Their spirits are part of the soul of Aldrya.

All the above very much IMHO.

Simon Hibbs


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