Allen Wallace's comments

From: David Cake <dave_at_starfish.net.au>
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 12:17:02 +0800

        Thinking about Allens comments, particularly
>Glorantha is a product, a commercial
>venture. If Office 98 failed to read previous editions any one of you
>would be ballistic, but when Jane was unhappy because Vinga's powers,
>a cult central to her game in all probability, appeared to have been
>seriously cut back, she is accused of being a grognard, whatever the
>hell that means.

and
>If Greg can't be bothered to throw a little water on the occasional
>flame, to hell with him. If he won't help support his own dream, why
>should I care about it. The worlds of Shehallalecyn are just as rich,
>and my own creation besides. What keeps you in Glorantha?

        I think the problem is a difference in attitude, and one that you see on the net a lot these days.

        You see, Glorantha as we have it today is not a commercial product. Its a fandom. And the tension between the two is what we are feeling. Fandom is about fans of something reclaiming it, making it there own, making it an outlet for their own creativity. Gloranthan fandom has certainly made Glorantha its own, with many members of the community happy to revel in their own creations and official version be damned if it interferes with their fun (like the joyous Megacorp Soviet Peloria jokes).

        But the truth is that legally, Glorantha does not belong to the fans, and the man that does own it also wants to use it as an outlet for his own creativity, and doesn't want to be bound by the ideas of fandom in general, the results of digest discussions, or even his own past writing (and more power to him for that). Plus he would kind of like to make money from it, making gaming products being his business. So we have a tension. Is this tension wrong? No, because both sides are keen to encourage the creativity of the other, even if we sometimes get frustrated. And besides, the borders are blurred all the time, everytime someone from fandom (ie MOB, David Dunham) sets out to create a real commercial product. But the tension will always be there, and we had better just learn to live with it.

        You can choose to accept Glorantha as a 'product', and just accept the products as written, or you can choose to throw yourself into fandom and flesh out the world and make it your own. But if you choose the second path, conflict with the 'official' version is inevitable. If we stuck to the official view on Vinga, for example, there would be no problem - because none of us would ever have a Vingan PC, because it was never written up in sufficient detail. Its because we have created things of our own to fill in the gaps that the new stuff sometimes upsets us.

        Personally, much of why Glorantha is great to me is that it does have an active fandom, one that is encouraged to be creative within the world. TSR does not have that. Big Corporations with feral lawyers like Paramount do everything they can to stamp out, contain and exploit, their fandom, because they demand full creative control all the time. Even the occasional smaller corporation, like mad Kevin Siembieda at Palladium. But Glorantha welcomes its fans. But the price of fandom is tension between the official world view and fandom, for fans get very attached to the ideas that have put so much effort into. Just learn to enjoy it, because its inevitable, and better than the alternative.

To quote Allen again
>The worlds of Shehallalecyn are just as rich,
>and my own creation besides. What keeps you in Glorantha?

        Gregs Staffords original vision, years and years ago, was perhaps not that fabulous, perhaps Shehallalecyn is just as rich as Glorantha was then. But Glorantha has had two things that Shehallalecyn has not. It has had that commercial exposure that has given the impetus to work out all the details, and it has an active fandom with whom I can share my interest on a daily basis. I love Gregs work, and I do not have the time to write whole books of esoteric (and rather beautiful) myths myself, even if I was as good at it. And I love that I can discuss the details with charming intelligent people like Nick Brooke, MOB, Pam Carlson or Jeff Richards (to single a few random people out - there are many fabulous people in Gloranthan fandom), all with their own background and personality that they bring.

        That said, I do agree with Allen that the digest has become too a bit too nasty of late. Perhaps its just a change in my own attitudes (I know I have been a bit aggressive in promoting my POV on occasion), as I don't have time to post as often, and seldom find myself even able to particate in the back and forth exchanges that are so common here (by the time I've finished my reply, enough time has passed that I either don't care, or the argument is three rounds past the message I responded too), and find I don't miss the arguments much anyway (though I miss the discussions). But I don't enjoy it as much as I used to, and I get the feeling others don't either.

        That said, I think Hero Wars will see a renewal of interest, and will see us doing something other than raking over old ground. Its certainly got me interested in doing new things with my game.

        Cheers

                David


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