I want to apologise in advance for a message that is basically a long rant about 'the new Glorantha', Vinga Thunderous, and all that.
But first, I have to apologise also for the term grognard - sometimes I forget that even notables of the digest have not been on the digest for the absurd length of time that I have, and so might not understand the term grognard, which I certainly didn't intend as offensive. It was a term used a lot around the time of the RQ4 playtest, and basically means conservative grumbler, and was intended in a light hearted sense.
Now that I have explained, I intend to start using it again though, because it seems to have become relevent once more.
Alex Ferguson
>David Cake has a sudden attack of Revisionism:
>
>> Rest assured that no great pronouncements have been made.
>
>Nope, just lots of Meaningful Whisperings in quiet corners, it would
>seem.
Well, Robin has put a lot of work into producing what he thinks is a nice product (I tend to agree with him). However, it has yet to pass through the delicate process of Greggly editing, so none of the Gloranthan details should be regarded as definitive as yet.
That said, Robin has been talking to Greg a lot, so some things that might seem controversial in Robins version are probably a result of recent Greg thinking. And there is no real way to know other than by waiting to see what Greg does.
>I may be showing my profound ignorance here, but in HW terms, what's the
>distinction between being an Orlanth Thunderous type and being a Storm
>Voice? Is there some _different_ O.T. keyword., other than the S.V.
>one? Such as something as quaint as an initiate or acolyte?
Orlanth Thunderous is a magic package. Storm Voice is a keyword that happens to have that magic package. Some magic packages are possessed by several keywords (for example, Helerites also have Orlanth Thunderous - unfortunately, also male). No, there isn't another O.T. keyword different to the S.V. one - but that doesn't mean there can't be. O.T. magic is compatible with Vinga magic, but the social role of Storm Voice is male.
If there is no social role that gives women OT magic, but it is nevertheless compatible, then we appear to have satisfied Jane - Thunderous women are rare and odd, but certainly exist.
To address a comment by TTrotsky
> Second, there remains the more general issue of how much HW will restrict
>certain powers (not necessarily just thunderous ones) to specific genders,
>which seems somewhat contrary to Orlanthi belief.
Hero Wars doesn't restrict particular magics, but it does restrict some specific social roles (ie keywords). Generally, in Orlanthi society there are other specific social roles that address these restrictions, but not always.
Jane also said
>And it looks as if David has Visions of the Future, too:
>> There may have been occasional things I didn't like, but compared to
>> (for example) how much more fascinating and enjoyable I find Orlanthi
>> culture after the revelations of the story of Vingkot, the story of
>>Lokamayadon,
>> Harmast, et al, the myths of Heort (and his self-reliant initial denial
>>of Orlanth)
>> - no contest.
>If these revelations had actually been made, I might agree with you. KoS
>doesn't
>have a lot of detail on any of them, and nothing further has been
>published except
>the snippets in Enclosure that I'm aware of.
For most of the things I mention, I am talking about the snippets found in Enclosure, or things Greg said in public at the last GCon. Particularly, I don't know much about Vingkot or the Immolation saga that isn't in Enclosure - its just I found those bits so cool as to be very inspiring for my conception of Orlanthi.
Jane bemoans Orlanth the Warrior
>You know, I'm beginning to recognise a pattern here. Put OW and OR in the Sky
>Palace and they'd be right at home. No wonder I don't like them.
To follow on from the last comment, think of Eringulf from the Immolation saga in Enclosure 2 as being a classic Orlanth the Warrior kind of guy. Right at home in the Sky Palace? I think not. Remember, Orlanth the Warrior may have a family, and prefer to stay with his tribe. He also encourages his tribe to fight, wishes to avenge insults against his tribe, raids his neighbours to steal their stuff, and so on. Orlanth Rex may boss everyone around, but he acknowledges his 'superiours' (tribal kings, King of Sartar) only grudgingly, and usually fiercely protects his tribes independence and right to cause trouble with other tribes. All not very Solar.
Alex also queries my on my
>> propounding the Lunar/Pelorian/Pelandan world view.
>
>Which one? (And I don't just mean which of that three-part-list.)
The glorious word of the Red Goddess, of course (though the dedicated worshipper of her everchangfulness may, of course, study the old Pelandan and even Dara Happan texts for the secrets of her earlier incarnations found therein).
Jane again
>And that's what I'm really objecting to, for those of you who don't seem
>to have
>realised. The New Way Ahead, as described, seems to be wrecking not only
>Vinga
>but also Orlanth. The God of Freedom has become anything but.
I think its more like a growing realisation (mirroring Orlanths own realisation) that with freedom comes responsibility, and if you want to have a wife and family there is more to life than Adventuring.
Tom Merchant gets truly overexcited
>is this the future of Glorantha? The free thinking and humourous
>Orlanthi are now no more. They have been replaced by Nietzchean
>Anglo-Saxon Ubermensch. Reattach that chain, girls, cause the lads say
>that you cant have storm powers.
What did I say about comments based on rumours of an as yet unfinished product? Certainly I think based on what little has been said here (particularly by Jeff Richards, never one to be unafraid of excess controversy), concluding that Hero Wars will be Weaponthanes of Gor seems unwarranted.
Vingan Weaponthanes get exactly the same magic as a male Orlanthi Weaponthane, which is to say that they have magic more resembling that of a Wind Lord than a Storm Voice. Which, as it happens, is exactly how I would have done it in RQ3 anyway.
And anyway, Nietzche is much maligned, never really understood by those most associated with him, and not at all incompatible with the Orlanthi world view in some ways. The real Orlanthi Ubermensch might have been Lokamayadon, though, and the Orlanthi rejected that path some time back.
Simon 'too cynical' Phipps
>I may be too cynical but from what I see, Gloranthan as a RolePlaying
>World is in its death throes.
I have seen the new dawn, brothers and sisters, and I am here to tell you of its glory!
Well, anyway, a few Hero Wars aspects has managed to seriously rekindle my interest in roleplaying in Sartar. The clan creation stuff, for example, is fantastic.
>Maybe Glorantha as a World Designed by
>Committee is here to say - but look at what they said about the
>Camel.
Hmmm... Glorantha as a World Designed by Committee - what does that phrase make me think of? I've got your World Designing Committee Right Here - - ladies and gentlemen, the Glorantha Digest. Whatever Hero Wars is, its not designed by committee. Perhaps one of the strongest aspects of Hero Wars is that it is designed primarily by one man, and a man that knows how to write great games and has kept the goal of playable fun in clear sight.
Anyway, end of rant.
Laugh a lot at Keith Mellists 'work to rule' Octamonists!
A big round of applause for recent messages on the 'new Glorantha' controversy by Steve Barnes and Pam Carlson.
Cheers
David
'...never support evil as a preferred lifestyle'
-TSR Inc corporate standards OldThinkers UnBellyFeel MoonWise! - Nick Brooke ------------------------------
End of The Glorantha Digest V6 #213
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