the next line________________________________:>>[Lunar] infantry (although I would say the Lunars are more cohort-tactics,
>>I think you are being too limited. I see a few more (including yours on my
>>list) listed as [archetype] generic name (examples/description):
> The backbone
>of the Lunar Empire is Ye Olde Dara Happa and some peoples (like
>Orlanthi) do not see a meaningful distinction between the two.
>
Ergo, my greek/roman analogy. The Spanish, the Huns/Avars, and the
Parthians (all barbarian peoples at the fringes of the Empire) probably
didn't see much difference either.
>Hence the lunars would be phalanxes (in addition to their peltasts,
>slingers and assorted cavalry, avilry and artillery chariots). I
>dunno where cohorts are in glorantha. It may be the Kingdom of
>War or Safelster...
Very unlikely to be either. Cohort-tactics take an extraordinary amount of
training, professionalism, execution, and leadership at every single level
of command. I can't see this coming from the Kingdom of War.
Neither can I see Safelstran troops (largely hired mercs) to spend enough
time together to be able to put the cohort-form into play. Certainly
*some* of the mercs have seen it, and some have probably seen its
effectiveness, but these guys aren't around long enough (in general) to
perform such intricacies.
>
>>[Western Knights] (shock Heavy Cav/Cataphracts)
>They are not exclusively cavalry. Not even the French at
>Agincourt were. AFAIK the Loskalmi only have one cavalry
>regiment that is capable of shock tactics and only knightly
>regiments are really heavy cavalry.
Well, yeah. I was talking archetypes. NO army was ever more than 20%
heavy cav - not even the Templars. OK maybe the Hungarians in 1240, but
look where it got them. The "archetype" of the Loskalmi military is the
Knight/Destrier. I don't see a picture of a scraggly farmer with a
bardiche on the cover of the Genertela book.....
>
>>[Pentan/Praxian] light shock cav/light cav missile troops
>Depends on what you mean by 'light shock'. Being run over by
>Bison or Rhino Riders would cause many to crap in their pants
>at the mere thought of what heavy shock was...
>
Light Shock: lightly armored troops meant to engage briefly in melee, or
pursue/destroy disorganized troops.
Yes, I *know* a bison is heavy. But not in THIS context. "Heavy" in the
wargame concept (at least in the one I feel is commonly held) means heavily
armored, and capable of engaging in sustained intensive melee. I can't
imagine lightly armored Pentans or Praxians sitting in a mixed melee and
trading blows for long, no matter how big & tough their mount it. Yes, the
rhino is tough, but once the rider is dead, how much use is it? It's as
much danger to friendlies as enemies. And the rider isn't wearing plate
mail. I would classify these as Light Cav, but with an overwhelming
initial combat modifier. They would charge, crush whoever is stupid enough
to receive such a charge, and then ride away to do it again.
>But to further communication on both sides, it might be helpful to
>look at a couple of articles on David Dunham's Website
>
>http://www.pensee.com/dunham/glorantha/aow.html and
>http://www.pensee.com/dunham/glorantha/gaow.html
>to see where I coming from or to put forward the definitions of light,
>heavy etc before attempting to describe troop types. It seems that by
>light, you are including the armour of the combatant. Under such a
>scheme, however, the Macedonian Phalanx would be classified as light
>because the hoplites gave up their breastplates in order to carry around
>their new and improved pikes. Which would be absurd.
>
Yes, I am including the armor of the combatant, but I am also using a
narrower definition of "attack" than Archer Jones (the person from whom
Sandy derived this very useful article). Don't get me wrong - Jones' book
is a must-read. Archer for example explains that "light cav is
offensively superior to heavy cav" which make a neat counterintuitive point
for a theorist, but which in example is patently false. He justifies it by
mixing the strategic with the tactical (old meanings, not modern ones!)
employment, claiming that the lights are superior because they can choose
the point of engagement. Yes, but this is strategy. I'm talking about
tactical strength which is demonstrated in the utter disintegration of ANY
light cav against the determined advance of heavy cav.
Light - not capable of sustained melee combat (I do *not* necessarily
automatically assume these are missile troops, although they frequently were)
Heavy - capable of sustained melee, usually typified by heavy armor. *or,
as in your ept example, the Macedonian Phalanx would be considered "heavy"
of course.
>
>>[Orlanthi/Trollish] Warbands (ala the Celts/Gauls)
>
>The Orlanthi and Uz do not fight in the same manner. The Uz attack
>by darkness or use ambushes and use hordes of trollkin first. The
>Orlanthi are incapable of or shun these tactics. Furthermore
>merely calling them celtic warbands ignores whether they have
>infantry or cavalry.
Well, right. OK, the trolls fight at night. So what does that have to do
about troop classification?
I rather think the gallic warbands used ambushes (anyone recognize the name
Teutoburger Wald?) to some good effect, as would the Orlanthi.
Also, warbands weren't in a vacuum - they had slingers, scouts, etc too -
like trollkin, like Orlanthi would.
Again, talking ARCHETYPES. The warband is a band of warriors bound more by
morale and valor than by training, who engage by the charge and generally
seek to break a combat from unit vs. unit to man vs. man.
>>[Afadjann] Medium Archers (mobile, organized non-skirmish missile troops)
>
>Leaving aside the question of exactly what is meant by organized
>mobile non-skirmishing archers,
Archers that fight in formation, rather than being generally dispersed.
Sorry if that was confusing.
the Afadjanni would also have
>elephantoids and heavy infantry. Plain cavalry is rare. All the
>mobility in the world isn't going to prevent foot archers/peltasts
>from being stomped on by a charging mastodon.
>
<sigh> again, talking archetypes. That aside, if your archers/peltasts can
get the Elefants to get riled, they'll do as much damage to the user as the
victims. Alexander used that to great effect.
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