<< As you say, "the only way that Orlanth could haved signaled his choice in these famous schisms was by granting *eventual* victory to one side or another". That's exactly what he did (or so the victors may think): he *granted* victory to Harmast and to Alkoring. In other words, he granted victory to those that sticked to him, and abandoned to their fate those that betrayed him.>>
Your original point was that intra-religious warfare could not occur - Orlanth just 'wouldn't allow' it, to you use your own words. It would appear from the above that you have changed this to 'intra-religious warfare does exist, but the good guys (from the god's POV) always win'. This is, IMO, a rather different point from the one that was originally being addressed. As I don't know much about the Lokamayadon conflict, I'll only make the following brief points about it:
<< Yes, both Lokamayadon and the Orlanth Dragonfriends betrayed Orlanth. They introduced religious and magical practices that departed from storm, and adopted other powers.>>
Lokamayadon did have storm powers, and pretty impressive ones at that. Arguably, they weren't proper Orlanthi ones (or so the people who defeated him would claim), but they were definately storm powers.
<< In order to receive the benefits of worshiping a god, one must keep pure
in
his faith. If one departs from the strictures of his faith, one will loose
access to those benefits. >>
Unless you're illuminated - as I think Lokamayadon may have been (not too sure about that though). We also have instances of Dara Happan Emporers who departed from the true path of their faith, yet were still able to succesfully use their powers (e.g. FS p70-71). To be sure, these Emperors were all eventually disposed of - those that weren't got to dictate the history books, and consequently turn not to have been naughty at all. However, until then, they still appear to have been able to use their Yelmic powers, something that apparently confused the Dara Happan philosophers.
<<Me: > To give a more clearly theist example, take the Arrolians. They
worship
> the Red Goddess, yet have clear doctrinal differences with the mainstream
> Lunars, which resulted in them being kicked out of the Empire. Why didn't
> the Red Goddess simply point out to them that they weren't worshipping
> her correctly - or that they were and the Empire ought to change its ideas,
> whichever was the case?
But the RG is an inclusive and changing godess. And she is tainted with chaos. How can anybody expect her to behave in a sensible way? >>
We know of similar heretical movements within the cult of Yelm, some of which resulted in outright warfare. Those which eventually lost were of course, regarded by later Dara Happan historians as genuine heresies, while those which won were regarded as 'new understandings'. You might argue that the later historians were objectively correct, since Yelm wouldn't have allowed the new movements if he hadn't approved of them (and, in all fairness, this would be what the Dara Happans themselves would argue) but some of these succesful movements were radically different than their predecessors, and one has to wonder why Yelm didn't make his wishes known a bit sooner.
For instance, in the First Age, the DH Emporer was a god, and worshipped as such, but after the events of Nysalor's life it was decided that he was just a man, after all, albeit one with important religious functions. This seems to me a pretty fundamental change, and not just an alteration in style of worship. I think if Yelm didn't want people to worship the DH Emporer as a god, he could have said so in Khordavu's reign, if not earlier.
<< Eventually the *wrong* schism or heresy fades away. Or is cleansed through war. A schism or an heresy means that a part of the faithful have been tainted. That taint may be so strong that they don't even see the signs of their error sent by the god. This may force the pure to cleanse the taint by eliminating the tainted.>>
I agree in so far as this would be what the victorious faction would believe had occured. However, I don't think one can predict in advance which faction it is that will win; the new 'heretical' movement eventually becoming the orthodoxy, or the old forms of religion re-asserting themselves - there have been instances of both in the Yelmic histories.
<<What I was saying was that no factions of a religion (with the exception of chaotic or chaotic-tainted religions) that keep their pure faith in the god would fight each other on religious grounds.>>
I agree that this is a rare event, but I do think it occurs. I also agree that schisms in Malkionism are far more common and succesful in the long run than those among the theists. IMO, this is partly because theists probably require some heroquesting in order to change their theology, partly because they're less likely to think of doing such a thing, and partly because they generally have a lot less theological guff to argue about.
Forward the glorious Red Army!
Trotsky
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