[on the subject of whether a subcult can have a different worship style compared with the main cult]
>>>OK: Yelmalio - sitting in a retirement tower or being a Templar
Me>> Is there a difference in worship styles between the two? I do not
>> think so. This arguement revolves around the point of whether the
>> worship of a minor deity wholely subsumed within a major one can
>> have a different worship style (like, for example, a materialistic
>> subcult within a shamanistic cult).
>I think there is a difference between sitting in a tower contemplating a
>shiny bright thing until you go blind and being a morally upstanding and
>righteous pillar of the Temple of the Sun Dome. The argument revolves around
>the definitions of worship styles which I do not believe to be exclusive but
>simply guides.
We are arguing about different things. Mysticism is not solely about mediation, it's about discipline and Martial Artists are as mystically orientated as the mystics who seek no material benefits. David Cake wrote in digest v06 #275 about how some characteristics of a Sun Dome Templar could be considered mystical in scope (ie crap magic and gains abilities through acts of self-denial among others).
Thus IMO the Sun Dome Templar, the average initiate and the Blind Priest in the Tower have the _same_ religious viewpoint of Yelmalio and consequently the _same_ worship style (IMO theism with a dollop of mysticism).
For this to be applicable to Doburdon would mean that he would have to be worshipped _outside_ of the cultic structure of Entekos. But I get the impression from the Enclosure #1 note that his cultic presence is little more than the servitor who makes Thunder for Entekos.
>>>Shargash: Lord of the the Dark Way; Transecendental Darkness mystics
>> IMO the Dark Path is not a subcult of Shargash in that it exists
>> distinctly from the other paths. It is not therefore a subcult
>> along the lines of, say, Orlanth Rex which is the relationship
>> which is implied by the Enclosure #1 writeup.
> so the dark path is not a subcult because it is a mystical subcult??
No. It is not a subcult in that the followers of the Dark Path do not normally partake in the worship rituals of the Red or Green Path whereas Priests and Light Sons of Yelmalio demonstrably do. The Priests in the Tower do not partake in mass worship ceremonies but they do utter the same prayers.
Me>> There are about a thousand worshippers of Zaytenera in Rinliddi, a
>> mystical cult that is not contained within another cult.
>ME Having never visited Rinliddi I was unaware that Zaytenara had a fully
>functioning cult apparatus independant of the Red Goddess and that the 1000
>non-worshippers all get together to devote themselves to non-divine concepts,
>transcendent metaphysics etc, all for no material benefit, although of course
>without the benefit of being one of the Seven Forms of the Red Goddess.
But the cult of Zaytenera is a functioning cult that stands by itself. The issue is not whether it is independant of the Red Goddess (no lunar cult is) or whether the cultists all get together in one great celebration but whether it is sufficiently autonomous from other cultic institutions to be recognized as a distinct cult in its own right. The Rinliddic cult of Zaytenera filfulls these criteria and it is joinable without having to join another cult.
>> Then why does Yelmalio _not_ have a crutch of being approachable
>> withini a more understandable god?
>With respect to Yelmalio - he is an understandable, meaning non mystic, god
>(from a normal worshipper POV, even if most of us get confused between him,
>Elmal, and all the rest), but he does have a mystic element of worship.
You originally argued that Doburdon was a mystic storm cult because Yelmalio was a mystic sun cult and that the pantheons needed "balance". Now you are apparently retreating from this. So why should Doburdon now be a mystic storm cult?
>Every one can understand the Sky (Yelmalio), it is there for everyone to
>see - oh, except blind mystics who stare at the sun.
The objects of Mystical awareness are not chosen for their supposed incomprehensibility. Anything can be the object of mystical worship.
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