Shargash and Orlanth

From: Wesley Quadros <wquadros_at_sprint.ca>
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 17:40:08 -0800


> Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 21:00:35 -0600
> From: Chris Bell <argrath_at_xsite.net>
> Subject: Two Thunders
>
> >Shargash is not storm; he is much much more than just that. He is a sky
> god not
> >an air god like Orlanth. He is a planet. He is death, war, devouring,
> rebirth,
> >growth, fighting, anger, thunder...
> >
> And Orlanth is more than even that. Orlanth is all that is Primal Storm,
> Courage, unconquerable strength, Rebellion, Justice, Wisdom,recklessness,
> The Runes, Father, Brother, wily foe, the eternal King, great Magician,
> Adventurer, penitent, saviour.
>

<BARBARIAN STOMPING MODE :-)>
Okay, sorry, I didn't give a complete list of Shargash. Courage, never been defeated, Rebellion, wisdom, recklessness, brother, son, champion/war leader, Lord of the Underworld. Loyal husband and father, adventurer, saviour, avenger, general, tamer of demons, and yet more when you think about the Black King( I haven't thought about what he will bring...). Shargash was the ruler of the world after Yelm was slain and he destroyed it to bring about it's rebirth. He loved his people so much that he was willing to kill them all to save them from the corruption of Chaos which he then mastered. </BSM>

> I'd be very interested in reading some cross cultural myths involving
> Shargash and Orlanth. Even though from what I understand, the God Learners
> never made inroads to Peloria (as far as I know), there certainly must have
> been some myths born from the interactions between Shargash and Orlanth's
> peoples, and explanations as to differences and similarities.
>

>From conversation with Jeff Richard and my readings, the Orlanthi think that Shargash and all of his people are demons. I don't remember the exact name but it is thought that Shargash was the one who slew Umath. The Shargashi see Orlanth as a rebellionous god who disobeyed his father Yelm and was exiled. The Orlanthi people are just barbarians who need to be killed to please
Shargash.

>
> >It can be argued that Orlanth is a degenerate form of Shargash as Orlanth has
> >thunder and some death and growing, fighting but not the rest of it. Of
> course,
> >don't try to tell an Orlanthi that.
>
> An Orlanthi would most likely tell you that Shargash is merely a
> misunderstood shadow or child or Humakt or Urox. Orlanth and Lightbringer
>

See above.

> worship is a hell of a lot more subtle and complex than many solars would
> admit. A Storm Voice may explain that Orlanth is far more than a mere
> frightening killer like Shargash, Orlanth is the noble hero, who just as
> often tricks, negotiates, and wins by proving loyalty and honor. Orlanth
> is not only death, but also life. He is passionate lover and compassionate
> father. Orlanth's compassion and willingness to sacrifice himself to save
> the world is what IMO puts him above the likes of Shargash.
>

A Storm Voice would tell you this? I think that this would come from a Good Voice. The Storm Voices concentrate on the Violent aspect of Orlanth. Orlanth is the Storm. He is Thunder!! He is the Raging Wind!

Also, in KOS it points out that Orlanth gave up Death when he entered the Underworld on the LBQ. He is no longer associated with Death.

Also, IMO, compassion is not a word that I would associate with any of the Storm gods. Honour and responsibility yes, compassion no.

>
> Of course, a tender of the Enclosures would deny this. Shargash, the great
> devourer, cleanses the world, burning away wickedness and corruption,
> purging the world of the bad so that the good can live.
>

Of course, the Enclosure articles are written from the Shargashi perspective.

>
> It could even be said that Orlanth combines the best traits of Shargash and
> Yelm! (Heresy!) ANd no doubt in 3rd age Theyalan myth, he conquered them
> both.
>
> I'd think the Lunars would have tried to merge conventional Storm and
> Shargash worship (with Shargash in Ascendance, of course), but except for
> political reasons.
>

Why? The Lunars already have a storm god. Doberdun.

> It can also be argued that Sargash worship is a crippled and enfeebled
> version of Orlanth's Lightbringer mysteries. Orlanth not only knows and
> understands death (second only to Humakt), but has *transcended* and
> *defeated* death.

Shargash is the master of the Underworld. I don't think that Orlanth can hold a candle (even a really really small candle) to him when it comes to Death. Remember, Shargashi Destroyers can animate their own dead bodies to gain vengeance on their killers. Lords of Ash can resurrect, summon, bind and torture spirits and souls. Orlanth went the underworld *once*. Shargash *lives* there.

> Any Lightbringer trapped in the underworld of Alkoth would probably have
> excellent chances of escaping and overcoming the paths of the dead, as
> these mysteries are essential parts of the Lightbringer's Quest. In fact,
> some crazy Heroquesting Orlanthi may well journey to Alkoth, just for the
> shortcut to the Underworld!

Any Lightbringer trapped in the underworld of Alkoth is toast. There is no escape. Hell is bad enough, somebody else's hell is impossible. Look at Sheng Seleris. Even as powerful as he is (at his peak a new star appeared in the sky) he cannot escape from the Lunar hell he is in.

Wesley


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