ancestors, ancestors!

From: Steve Lieb <styopa_at_iname.com>
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 10:53:39 -0600


>>>Is The flame of Sartar such an item?
>>I'd say this one is only for the direct descendants.
>
>I agree with your take on ancestors reactions to their descendants (and
>therefore to adopted descendants) but I think if you accept that you can be
>ritually adopted into the clan enough to allow ancestor worship and
>summoning you would have to allow that adoption to work for item use unless
>their were additional restrictions to the item.
>

IMO basically the answer is YES you can be adopted into (some) families, and thus become part of their ancestor worship system. In my opinion it IS possible - unlikely but possible. As far as the items go, I guess it depends on what YOU want as a DM (doesn't everything?) - I'd say there are "clan only" items like spirit beads, etc that you could use, but then there are ALSO items of greater significance that WOULD have other restrictions (Flame of Sartar being an example) the first of which is the measly clan-only restriction, but further ones being much narrower, often entirely subjective (the earlier point made here about the legitimate but puppet Sartar King not being able to light it shows that pretty clearly). 
 >------------------------------

>Nick says
>>Correct. Worshipping someone *else's* ancestors is rather silly (though
>>we're doing something similar while we retain hereditary peers in the House
>>of Lords, IMO).
>
>It may not be so silly to worship someone elses ancestors. If you accept
>that part of the reason that you worship your ancestors is that they protect
>you from the nasty spirits that are out there you may equally worship
>another spirit that does the same or even a better job. It may be like a
>hero or city cult on a lesser level.

W-e-l-l-l-l, sort of. I'd suggest that ancestor worship is a lot deeper than "they protect me" - it has to do with tradition, respect, family, and continuity. The fact that the spirits have a USE is gravy, essentially. Thus the idea that one could join "another" family is a crucial and significant one that at LEAST can never be reversed. Here's another issue: counterintuitively, I think it would be EASIER to be adpoted into an ancestor worshipping tribe if you came from one already, than if you were (frex) some heathen city man who doesn't even KNOW who his father is, much less care about his great grandfather. Opinions?

>
>Steve and Peter said
>>>Neither can adopted members (usually) hold clan official seats.
>>
>>I don't think this is true. Wives (or husbands for matrilineal clans)
>>get accepted into the clan with all rights and responsibilities, so
>>why not adoptees? If they didn't trust him, they wouldn't have adopted
>>him in the first place.
>>
>Can People who have married into the Clan become Initiated into the ancestor
>worshipping cult?
>I think probably yes which means why not adoptees as Peter said but the
>general concensus was that the adoption would be seen by your original
>ancestors as a rejection of their way of life, I dont believe marriage would
>have these same ramifications. Does this mean that a wife from clan A that
>marries into Clan B can participate in both ancestor worship rituals? Maybe
>she is considered an inactive worshipper of her original clan spirits.
>

I think Tom has a good point here. Voluntary amicable marriage is probably the ONLY way you can "inactivate" your membership in an ancestor cult without ticking the spirits off. Of course, a Romeo & Juliet thing would make them mad, as well.
>
>------------------------------
>
>Steve wrote:
>>the rules for subordinate spouses (in terms of lineage) are special - I
>>can't think offhand of a situation (in RW cultures) where such an
>>individual would be a candidate for leading offices anyway.
>
>How about India? Where the Italian born widow of one of the Gandi clan is
>running the Congress party?

:) Touche! Good point, but most tribes aren't democracies, of course.

End of The Glorantha Digest V6 #380

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