><< I ignored the solstices and equinoxes mostly because I can't figure out
>what they're supposed to represent in the Gloranthan sense >>
To which Trotsky replied:
>The same as they did in the real ancient world before they knew about
>heliocentrism. For example, the summer solstice is defined as the longest
day
>of the year.
Okay, I can buy that. I did not explain myself clearly however. What I was
wondering is what they represent in Glorantha. I guess they represent the days that Yelm spends more/less time surveying his realm. (To use a divine model-please feel free to substitute your local sun deity for Yelm).
I'd said:
><< Besides they mean diddly where I live. Dec 21st is the first day of
>winter? Baw hah hah. Then why has there been snow on the ground for five
>weeks already?>>
Trotsky replied:
> So you're defining 'winter' as being the time when there's snow on the
>ground? Means I didn't have a winter here this year (well, not yet,
anyway),
>although I pretty much thought I lived in the temperate zone...
Admittedly I was being lazy and somewhat self-serving since I'm primarily
interested in northern Genertela. Of course some temperate zones don't
get much snow. We don't always have snow during the early part of winter
(to be honest we didn't have snow this year until two weeks before
Christmas
-too warm, now it's cold enough to freeze a brass monkey-today's high
-26 celsius).
I have no problems with the solstices and equinoxes being the mid-points (more or less) of the four seasons since it results in Earth Season=autumn, etc. I'm now sold on the equinoxes and solstices since they don't conflict
with the model I was trying to create (as long as they don't represent the beginning of any seasons:->)
Trotsky
>But it does mean that the question
>'what weeks of the Gloranthan calendar correspond with winter?' has
different
>answers in different parts of the world, even if we ignore the arctic and
>tropical zones.
> At any rate, pick whatever day you think winter starts in the RW,
figure
>out how much fraction of year separates it from the winter solstice, and
use
>that to place the start of winter relative to the winter solstice in
>Glorantha.
True.
Trotsky again:
> Incidentally, it has been argued that the lengths of the four seasons
>(using the solstice/equinox definitions) are not identical in Glorantha,
such
>that the spring equinox falls on the first day of the year, immediately
after
>the Sacred Time. I'm not sure whether this has been officially confirmed
but
>it makes a lot of sense for, using this, you'll find the autumn equinox
falls
>on Clayday of Ernalda's High Holy Week = Eiritha's HHD = Grain Goddesses
HHD =
>Aldrya's HHD. The winter solstice stubbornly refuses to be any interesting
day
>religiously, unfortunately.
This doesn't mess with the Dark=Winter, Earth=Autumn, etc., either so I
don't
have any problems with it. Though I'd like an official definition too.
I've heard
from other sources that Stephen Martin says that the spring equinox falls on
the first day of the year so I guess that's pretty official.
I'd said:
><< Winter is the cold bit where most of the plants are dormant or dead,
spring
>is when it gets warmer and plants start to grow, >>
> How much warmer is 'warmer'? Do snowdrops etc. count for purposes of
>determing what plants are doing? Even in my garden not all plants begin to
>grow at the same time of the year. This is what I mean by the definition of
>the seasons being arbitrary - there is no clear dividing line between them,
>and we could just as easily define any number of seasons. Four is
convenient,
>because its easy to predict when they fall astronomically using the
solstices
>and equinoxes (although whether you chose to put those dates at the
beginning
>of the seasons, in the middle of them, or a few weeks before them is
entirely
>up to the calendar maker).
True I'm wasn't being very specific mostly because I recognize that there's
no clear cut definitions. This is a frustrating exercise since I have an
idea
what I mean by the four seasons (and sure you could multiply this number
to create any number of seasons using observable phenomena (or even
cultural phenomena-dating season???) but I'll stick with four for my limited
purposes.
Trotsky again:
> Indeed, any definition of seasons is
>going to ignore latitude on Earth; for example your definition means there
is
>no winter in the mediterranean with its primarily evergreen trees, yet I
doubt
>the people who live there would agree.
Yes but are they growing and active or dormant? We've got plenty of evergreens around here but they don't do much growing in winter.
Trotsky again:
> True, but that doesn't make a solstice/equinox definition meaningless,
as
>Glorantha does have solstices and equinoces. Whether it's any use is, of
>course, a seperate question :-)
Having re-examined their placement (thanks to Steve Libe for the dates):
Spring Equinox = Sea/Disorder/Freezeday
Summer Solstice = Fire/Harmony/Fireday Autumn Equinox = Earth/Fertility/Clayday Winter Solstice = Dark/Illusion/Fireday
I'm definitely prepared to work with (and better yet like) these dates
provided
they don't start any of the seasons. (At least not in Balazar. YFPOGMV*).
Now I can get on with the generation of a Balazaring calendar along the lines of John Hughes excellent Far Point Stead Calendar.
Oliver
PS Maybe the Winter Solstice is the HHD of Xentha?
*Your Favorite Part of Glorantha May Vary
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