Treack Markhor from Kmnellist_at_aol.com on 1999-01-28 (Glorantha Digest Vol 06)

From: Kmnellist_at_aol.com
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 17:31:54 EST

Thanks for the formating advice:

<< I doubt very much that the "freebooters" were exiled -- this is during a period when the Jrustelans are expanding everywhere. I think this means they were player characters, rather than official agents of a government.

David Dunham >>

Like I said, low morals.

Me:
>Either way the New Dragon Ring were also stealing other peoples
>stuff; "falling upon the Land of Splendour like vivisectionists
>on a new animal."

Peter M:
Vivisection is theft? If you looked at the myth of ShangHsa, you would see that the New Dragons Ring was actively disseminating occult knowledge and not stealing it from others. They seem to be the complete opposite of Atyari occult thieves IMO. Me:
The History of Kralorela from the Genertela book describes the Godlearner freebooters "seeking plunder and lands" (theft), and five people who "dried up the lands magic and vitality" (dehydration?), rituals and age old rites were "usurped and abused" (usurped and abused). This may be Godunya propaganda but that is where I got my false New Dragon Ring ideas from.

>The operative words were "plunder other peoples secrets" which is what
>the New Dragon ring did.

Peter M:
No, the New Dragons Ring didn't. They discovered new insights and taught them to others. They are not occult thieves nor were they chaotic. Both which IMO makes the NDR and Atyar incompatible faiths. At least in the early stages of ShangHsa's reign.

I was under the impression that Kralorela may not even have a concept of Chaos.
I would like to point out that I am not suggesting that the New Dragon Ring was just an Atyari Temple but that Atyar practices may have been of use to them, or at least some of them.

>arriving and Yanoor leaving as Emporer which is plenty of time for the
>original Godlearners to learn few new tricks, give up their old philosophy
>and take over the Empire of Splendour

Peter:
They gave up being God Learners _after_ they took over Kralorela which is circa 768. Secondly they managed to overthrow Yanoor by teaching their wisdom to the natives and gaining popular support (according to the White Wolf Yelm cult writeup). What exactly they gave up after they took over, I don't know, but I doubt that there was a wholescale alignment with the cult of Atyar.

Me: since there is no precise definition of being a Godlearner then it is hard to define a date at which one gives up being one. There is no Oath of allegiance to Godlearning.

Peter:
>> Unfortunately the Imperial Age is when the Atyaris are best understood
>> to have met up with the Thanics after being expelled from Kralorela.
>> And the New Dragons Ring were in control throughout most of that age.

Me:
>The New Dragons Ring started having trouble in 1050, which is still second
>age (just). However Stephen Martin in Drastic Vol. Chaos suggests a First
>Age drift of Atyari westwards. There is no problem with this, Atyari
would >not have all packed up their books and left in an organised caravan.

Peter:
But these Atyari would have to have knowlege of Treack's teachings (since he founded their cult) in order to have an affect on Thanic cults in the west. If this happened in the first age, he would have to be a pretty longlived cult hero.

Me:
Thanatari are safely escorted to a part of Hell called the Place of Waiting from where they are summoned to serve the living as human guardians, thus Treack Markhor could be a Guardian continually resummoned, by different Horn of Atyar, in different places.

Treak could therefore be 'reincarnated' as the Guardian of the highest ranking Horn of
Atyarseveral times through history

Keith N.
Keith N.