Orlanthi marriage customs

From: Jane Williams <jane_at_williams.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 15:31:06 -0000


I said
> As we all know, when two Orlanthi are married, they would never
> dream of sleeping with other people, right?

and David Weihe (btw, how do you pronounce that?) replied
> Actually, we know quite the opposite.

Then I can only assume we're looking at two very different copies of KoS, or you're assuming that what the "Report on the Orlanthi" says is completely untrue.

What I've got in my copy (pp242-243) says: "Marriage among the Orlanthi is a mutual bond between paricipants: it is both exclusive and monogamous. Since sexuality is relatively open and unmarried sex not frowned upon, the marraige bond is significant. Since marriage is sanctified by divine oath, adultery is frowned upon and sometimes dangerous."

The last I heard, Orlanthi do take oath-breaking quite seriously.

> If East Ralios follows the old Irish model closely...
Sounds like they don't. Assuming, that is, that they're Orlanthi, not Irish.

and then down the bottom of his post, misses the point completely. I was talking about we, the Digesters, and me in particular (being the only viewpoint I can speak for reliably) tending to make certain invalid assumptions. And he says:

> So I suppose that explains female circumcision being so common and
> accepted among the patriarchal, patrilineal Europeans, and unknown in
> matrilineal cultures like the Africans?
David, I'm not an African. I haven't the foggiest idea where they got that daft idea from. Nor do I have the foggiest idea what it's got to do with the point. It isn't a part of Western European culture, so it can't be where we get our cultural assumptions from. If anyone out in Digestland  *isn't* from a Western European-based culture (which the USA for instance is), then maybe they can tell us what assumptions they make and why.

Back to the Orlanthi, and Darvell came up with a really interesting idea

> This would suggest that the biological father mattered less (i.e. not
> at all) than the kinship group into which the child was initiated.....
> Essentialy your "father's" myths take the place of genes.

It does, doesn't it? And when you look at the wording of those marriage types, it's all about what clan the children join: usually the husband's. Myths taking the place of genes sounds spot on for Glorantha.

> If so part of the marriage rites must be to identify (at least) the
> wife to the man's mythic ancestors or otherwise tie her into the family
> myths.

Identify her, yes. But, I still think, not to make her part of the same bloodline, because that would make the marriage incestuous. Think about Orlanth and Ernalda: she doesn't leave the Earth tribe, does she? In fact, she carries on being the head of it. But her children by Orlanth are all Air tribe.

Do we have any further evidence about the position of the wife WRT her husband's clan or bloodline? KoS doesn't seem to explain this.

I only know of one other example of "normal" Orlanthi life being documented: Minaryth Blue. He's born in 1597. We are never told who his father was. Two years later his mother Renatha marries, and they move to live at her brother-in-law's stead. In 1602 her husband is killed, and Minaryth and his mother move from place to place: Tarkalors' Keep where he was born (and presumably where Renatha's parents live), then Apple Lane, Farvine, Jonstown, and Clearwine. In 1608 his mother is killed and "we" move to Swanton, with "Aunt Inganna". His mother's sister? Inganna takes "us all" to Two Sisters Ford in 1610, and in 1611- 1612 young Minaryth is initiated. "Rostalos Rostandosson gave me my first weapons".

This looks to me as if the child joins the clan of whatever male is protecting him at the time, with biological relationship being almost irrelevant. Admittedly the series of tragedies in Minaryth's childhood is hardly normal, but the system seems to have coped. And in a way, that makes sense. The traditional, normal Orlanthi way of things is that women produce children, and take a pride in producing as many healthy ones as possible. Men support and protect them, and take a pride in doing so as well as possible. The actual process of being the biological father takes a few minutes, and not much talent.

Later in life, Minaryth names his sons after his mother's husband, and after Rostalos: the men who had been fathers to him, but to whom he had no genetic relationship.

> All of which puts a different (for me anyway) slant on Argrath's
> claims.

Personally I'm quite sure that the various bloodlines given for the Argrath who became Prince of Sartar are all (both?) true. Only one lot is for his "natural" parents, and another is for his foster parents. So he can claim descent from the Karandoli clan, and bring them back from the Other Side (and from Pavis) to give him a power-base in the Colymar. And he can claim descent from Maniski and Yanioth, and hence the Sartar blood-line.


End of The Glorantha Digest V6 #417


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