Me>Where does this assumption come from?
Peter in olde worlde speech mode:< 'tis not an assumption, 'tis what is written in the Genertela Book.>
Me: The assumption that pirates get so homesick that they must return to their favourite island. I appreciate that there is now (1621) a pirate kingdom of Smelch on the Island of Alatan but saying that none of the fleet that sailed westwards to the Mournsea following defeat by the Quinpolic League even stayed in the New Coast region is ridiculous. Your definition of pirates may be home loving, well organisied, loyal citizens of a pleasant pirate kingdom but my definition is of ruthless opportunists who sail the seas in search of plunder and find any port in Storm Season.
me>I see no reason for pirates not to land wherever there is a safe port;
>Alatan had just been sacked which hardly makes it a safe place to
>relocate.
me >Alatan had ruled the ports of the Mournsea prior to this, it's pirates
>would come from any one of them.
Peter:
Wrongo. It only ruled the Mournsea for about a year or two at the
most. Furthermore these fleets are something on the order of fifty
ships strong which means they do not have to recruit from servile
populations.
Me: I am "wrongo" in stating that Alatan ruled the ports of the Mournsea and then you immediately state that it DID rule the Mournsea for a year or two. At this point the seas had only been open since 1580, ie 5 years. So of the five years that the seas had been open Alatan had dominated New Coast for one or two of them. In which time they had converted coastal towns (presumably sleepy backwaters before the oceans opened) into ports, raided all nearby lands and pretty much taken over. Are you saying that Alatan alone provided all the manpower for it's 50 ship fleet?
Peter>> Handra is at least 150 km away from the Nimistor river and to reach
>> there one either has to travel through Bastis (a separate Trader
>> Princedom) or through Ryzel (where man-eating 'newts live). It is
>> not part of Nimistor any more than the Solanthi are.
Me>The point is that people from Handra started ***sailing*** around the
>Mournsea, up the Nimistor river perhaps, and spread their new found Open Sea
>skills to everyone.
Peter: Why on earth would they need to sail _up_ the Nimistor?
Me: To raid, to trade, to explore. Sorry I forgot that Alatan pirates are home loving un adventurous types.
Peter: And the coast of Nimistor is part of the Newcoast cities which have
rejected the rule
of interior lords
ME: Who are these people of the New Coast cities if they are not either pirates from Alatan, people seeking a new life at sea, adventurous types seeking escape from old ways.
Peter - the people at the mouth no longer _consider_ themselves part of the Nimistori trader-principality. Secondly Handran fleets were suppressed by the Holy Country.
Me: Handra must have been a city dominated by Alatan pirates for a year or two, then the Holy Country wants to suppress it's fleets; perhaps a few brave Handrans break the naval blockade and take up smuggling or, worse still, piracy.
Me > Why anyone would imagine the best way to spread a
>useful seafaring ritual would be to trudge overland is beyond me.
Peter:
Nobody did. You did however try and claim Handra was part of Nimistor
as evidence of the great Nimistori sailing traditions. I was pointing
out that this was not so, hence the geographical arguments.
Me:
*You* suggested trudging overland, and even went as far as describing the
dangers involved in such a trek. I do not believe dragonewts are a
geographical argument. I was claiming that the ships built at Handra soon
spread Dormal's discovery around the mournsea, and at least 150km up the
coast. Your 'geographical arguments' strengthen my logic as the open seas
would open up new easier/safer trade routes
Keith N.
End of The Glorantha Digest V6 #427
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