Chris Bell
argrath_at_xsite.net
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 15:13:34 +0200
>From: "Sir Alisander" <sir.alisander_at_earthling.net>
>Subject: Chaos vs. Evil
First, Alisander, a few points.
> In issue #512 Keith N wrote, probably following Lords of Terror, that Malia
>is not inherently chaotic. This is very interesting and, IMO, very true. It
>also highlights what I think is a gross simplification of the Chaos topic.
> Malia is not chaotic because she has no direct connection with the Chaos
>Rune, which is the fount of all Chaos, but Chaos creatures worship her. Does
>that make her chaotic? No. Humakt and Chalana Arroy are both worshipped by
>Broos, and surely they are not chaotic.
First, I assume that you're referring to the worship of Humakt and Chalana
Arroy by *illuminant* Broos that are referenced in Dorastor, Land of Doom.
As Illuminants, they get to Chaotically break the rules of worship and
worship and gain power from whoever the hell they please. Further, I think
that in a fan publication I read (Tales or Tradetalk, I think?) The Humakt
that is supposedly worshipped by the Castrati Broos who are not Illuminants
in Dorastor is actually a Chaotic daemon of death who poses as him.
Malia is of course evil, but are all
>evil Gods chaotic? No. Daga, Gorgorma and even Humakt are evil, but not
>chaotic.
Malia was the midwife to the birth of Wakboth, the defiler and raper of the world, and was twisted by her own evil emotions of jealousy and greed to assist Ragnaglar and Thed in birthing the ultimate Chaos god. While in our world, disease may have a natural role, in Glorantha, it has none. In the Golden age, when all was perfect, there was no plague or suffering. The only reason Malia exists in the world is because in order for the Ritual of the Net to work, Malia and the other surviving Chaos Gods *had* to be incorpoarted into the world, along with everything else. If Malia could have her way, the world would be made to slowly fester and rot and die horribly, in vengeance for defeating her during the Gods war. It is also the stated intent of the Chaos Gods, including Malia, to destroy the world so that Chaos can be unfettered and all possibilities can be realised. Of course, we all know this to be a foolish Gbaji lie, both from a subjective (in character, cultural) POV, as well as an objective, game POV, as all the written game material has so far pointed to the fact that the Chaos Gods want nothing less than the brutla destruction of Glorantha, Malia included. She's only a part of the world because the Compromise *forces* her to be, and would overtake it if she were unchecked.
o, are all Chaos Gods evil? Again, the answer is no. Nysalor,
>the Red Goddess, and in a certain sense Primal Chaos are not evil Gods.
>Their worshippers may commit evil (or rather, bad) deeds, but so do
>worshippers of Orlanth, Yelmalio and Storm Bull. And these three are
>cultural heroes, not villains.
One can't speak for the deeds of a Deity's worshippers, as the Compromise allows mortals full freedom. However, as for the Gods themselves, the three deities you mentioned above *suffered* on behalf of their wroshippers, and risked certain destruction at the hands of Chaos to save the world. Orlanth risked hell itself to save an enemy he despised, to save his wife and his people. Storm Bull, from compassion, engaged the very soul of corruption to save the world. Yelmalio was beaten, robbed, and stolen from, yet instead of feeling he assisted those he could and guarded the weak from destruction, protecting the sleeping elves. Their counterparts, the Chaos Gods, want nothing but painful, defiled annihilation for Glorantha. Their called the Lords of Terror for a reason!
> In a certain sense, I feel that Chaos is actually Good, because it
>represents Nature as it tends to re-establish itself, while the Great
>Compromise is Evil because it constrains Nature's free flowing. It would
>seem that Chaos, in the end, is stable, while Order is unstable (more
>precisely, metastable).
You have it backwards. As stated in prior writings by FGS himself, nature
is actually what's lawful, the world as it was before the coming of Chaos.
Arachne Solara is amongst other things the Goddess of nature and a vast
unknowable. Arachne Solara had to bind Chaos with Law and meld Chaos to
the Law of the Compromise in order to save the world. Thus, Time was born.
The world is now a far cry from the perfect world of the Gods Age (where
everything was perfect and happy) but at least the universe still exists,
unlike what would have happened were Chaos were allowed to run it's course.
If Chaos were unrestrained, there would be *nothing*. The cosmos would
have been devoured by the maw of Kajabor, with no nature and no
individuality or unity.
> Maybe this is too dark a view, but I think that the kind of Black & White
>morality that equates all Chaos with all Evil is out of place in Glorantha.
Black and White Morarlity is out of place, but at least amongst most
cultures (Theyalan, Doraddi, Malkioni, and even in pre-Lunar Dara Happan
myth) Chaos is recognized as the great dire threat, although different
cultures see Chaos in different ways.
>I don't like most Gloranthan supplements published after RoC because they
>picture Chaos Gods as big bad demons too similar to Lovercraft's monsters.
>Most of all I hate the "important note" on page 3 of Lords of Terror:
>"...these cults be used solely for [NPCs] antagonists...".
That's right! That's also actually a re-print of the warning that was given in Cults of Terror. Ever since at least 2nd Ed RQ (which is as far back as I've played), Chaos was made out to be the prime antagonist for most PC's. Yes, I'd say that there's a certain 'inspiration' taken from HPL's work for many Chaos Horrors. The morality of most Gloranthans in regards to Chaos is for good, healthy reasons...generally, when societies give in to the temptations of Chaos and disregards responsibilities to itself and others, that culture will be destroyed. The Lunar Empire may or may not be guilty of this, because while the Lunar Empire embraces certain aspects of Chaos, the Lunar Empire is also in may ways compassionate, and there are many good and bad people on both sides in the Lunar/Sartar conflict. The Red Goddess vs Orlanth struggle I agree is not a 100 percent black and white issue, but no good conflict ever is. But as far as Chaos is concerned, there is only one answer. For vague and easy-to-twist morality, check out Storyteller.
> Alex
>
>
>Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 15:13:37 +0200
>From: "Sir Alisander" <sir.alisander_at_earthling.net>
>Subject: Music for Glorantha (and beyond...)
>
> I don't know if someone has written a theory about music and role-playin=
>g,
>but these are my personal suggestion to enhance the experience:
>
>Prax campaign opening titles: Tchaikovsky, Swan Lake Act II No. 10
>
>Discovery: Wagner, Mourning March from "The Twilight of the Gods"
>
>Farewell: Meat Loaf, "Objects in the Rear View..." and "I'd Lie for Your"
>from, for example, "The Very Best of Meat Loaf" and Deep Purple, "Soldier=
> of
>Fortune" from "Stormbringer".
>
>Ending titles: ELP, "Farewell to Arms" from "Black Moon"
>
>Heroic but doomed action: Mussorgsky, "Pictures at an Exhibition" N=B0 10=
> "The
>Great Gates of Kiev" (but only in the orchestral version)
>
>Elric! and Hawkmoon opening titles: Hawkwind (also a good name for an
>Orlanthi clan), "Assault & Battery" from "Warrior on the Edge of Time"
>
>Elric! and Hawkmoon closing titles: Hawkwind, "Golden Void" op. cit.
>
>Faerie Setting: Blackmore's Night, "Shadow of the Moon" (ample choice of
>Faerie themes)
>
>and so on.
>
>PS: since this is the very first time I write to the Glorantha Digest, I =
>may
>as well introduce myself. I'm a 23 years old Italian Runequester. I've be=
>en
>playing RPGs since 1987, and from 1992 mainly RuneQuest. My first campaig=
>n
>wasn't set in Glorantha, but in Fantasy Earth, at the end of the Viking E=
>ra.
>I was one of the few people who liked non-gloranthan settings the most, a=
>nd
>even now that I am completely converted to the Lunar Way I still think th=
>at
>RuneQuest is the best RPG system avalaible, and Vikings its best suppleme=
>nt.
>What a shame to let it die!
>
> Alex
>
Good to meet you, Alex! Excellent music suggestions. However, we'll have
to disabuse you of those Pro-Lunar opinions sure enough. We all know at
the I Fought, We Won, the Red Goddess would have surrendered and melted
into Chaos, but Orlanth and Vingkot's responsibility made them stay on.
For love, they won! :)
Good to have you on the Digest. Welcome!
Chris Bell
argrath_at_xsite.net
Powered by hypermail