> 1. Stormbull as a cult is more important within the social dynamics of
> a Glorantha-based RPG campaign than Waha, because for reasons discussed
> elsewhere, Stormbull PCs and NPCs are more prevalent than Waha ones and
> interactions in game sessions between Stormbulls.
True, *until* the next Glorantha-based RPG comes out and the genre shifts. Then the dominant religion of Prax should get proper representation. Meanwhile, Waha is *still* more important within the social dynamics of a Praxian clan (band, group, family...).
> 2. In the backdrop of Praxian society, Waha plays a more important and
> dominant role. This backdrop provides atmosphere in which to create a
> campaign.
Agreed. Though describing this as "washed-out" is kinda misleading.
> 3. The backdrop of Praxian society does not have as great an effect on
> a campaign as the players themselves, where Stormbull dominates.
As happens in your games, yes.
> 4. Therefore, *from a game perspective*, Stormbull, not Waha, is the
> dominant social cult in Prax.
No, it is *still* the dominant ANTI-SOCIAL cult in Prax. Praxian society is not and cannot be defined by worship of the Storm Bull.
>> (In a more freebooting campaign, like the traditional Prax or Pavis or >> Griffin Mountain setting -- adventuring with no home, no family, no ties >> -- Orlanth Adventurous characters have many of the same features as >> Bullies: no leaders, followers or dependants to worry about).
> You're starting a new thread here :)...where exactly does it say in bold
> print and in a clear manner that Stormbulls have no leaders, followers, or
> dependents?
Nowhere. My point was that Orlanthi in more settled, 'farmer'-style, clan-based games have leaders, followers and dependents (and the interactions between these lead to the unfair "depth" of this PC cult); Orlanth Adventurous types wandering around in Prax or the Elder Wilds (the classic RQ2 situation) typically lack most of these. And they can behave differently -- with less restraint and less fear of consequences -- because of it.
If a Storm Khan were a responsible family man, concerned for the likely consequences of his actions on his settled and largely defenceless followers, would he act the same way?
> Now let's admit that Stormbull's role in past, present, and future
> campaigns will always overshadow Waha's...
Nope. Not true for all past campaigns everywhere; less true in all present campaigns everywhere; certainly untrue for all future campaigns everywhere (if present trends continue). I thought it was your displeasure at this tendency that sparked the thread. I am happy to agree that players you know play Storm Bullies with gusto, verve and brio. I don't think that sets the mould for the rest of the Gloranthan gaming community, or why are there always more people who've disagreed with you when the fur stops flying?
>> We should try to stay aware of the Big Picture within which our games >> are set, IMO -- otherwise Glorantha becomes "what we extrapolated from >> our house campaign" and not "what everyone else who read the same >> products knows".
> But this thread just points out that the latter statement doesn't hold
> true. Lots of people have read the same products, yet somehow play
> things differently anyway.
Yur, but they aren't all complaining about "clans being introduced to Prax". You're the sucker who sticks his neck out against 22 years of publication history... and does so 11 years after "My Father Told Me" about life in a Praxian Clan.
> The way that people play it in their house campaigns *is* the true
> Glorantha: it has to be. However it's being played (in the average/
> typical campaign), that's the way it is...
I sympathise, but I can't agree. Levelling Glorantha to an imagined lowest common denominator, then ignoring published Gloranthan background that disagrees, feels wrong to me. Accepting that there is (and should be) two-way feedback between Gloranthan authors and gamers is a completely diffe rent matter.
> For example, I'd guess that Elmal is still not *actively* played/used
> in a large number of campaigns. Luckily for Elmal, enough people have
> apparently accepted him (many grudgingly) that he's real now.
Yur, but Sun County has still worshipped Yelmalio forever, IMO. That part of the idiocy failed to take root. (I most sincerely hope).
>> (NB: there's a big Storm Bull-centred Orlanthi heroquest/adventure in
Tales
>> #18 -- the first Greydog Special -- which is at the printers even as I
type.
>> We may not *play* any Bullies, but we can't just ignore them!).
> Interesting. This continues the sort of "do as I say, not as I publish"
> phenom that's been going on with Glorantha for a while...if everyone is
> so sure that people want to play farmers and craftsmen instead of
> warriors and magicians, then when are the scenarios going to reflect that
> (*not* trying to pick on you here, just popped up and fits with the
thread)?
Oh, was I unclear? The scenario in question centres on a bunch of Orlanthi farmers (from the Greydog clan, naturally) going on the Stormwalk Mountain heroquest to learn how to tame the Storm Bullies who've been disrupting the good life in their village. Storm Bull characters needn't apply. Clan values rule. Here's a scenario that reflects that.
"Do as I say, *and* as I publish".
> The point was that, in general, if facts are not useful to campaigns,
> then they serve no purpose.
Not so. If *a* fact is not useful to *a* campaign, then it serves no purpose in *that* campaign. Extrapolating more generally from this ("this fact has not been useful in my campaign, so it serves no purpose *anywhere* and should be retconned out of existence") is a fallacy. This illustrates why you're wrong to put emphasis on the "average/typical campaign" -- by definition, this is not an exceptional, ground-breaking campaign.
> You see, I have this incredible ability to adjust the depth of my campaign
> and all its facets to reflect what the players choose to play ;).
I can well believe that :-)
> People play more Stormbulls. I've observed this many times. I relate
> my observations to illustrate a point now forgotten :). That's about it.
I believe I can recall: it had something to do with whether Waha's clan-based social organisation was remotely important to Praxians, didn't it? Your take was that it isn't, because Storm Bull is the dominant social cult in Prax.
Ho hum. I can see why you're glad to forget it.
Regards, Nick
End of The Glorantha Digest V6 #523
Powered by hypermail