> - --Peter Metcalfe
> Because it was created to aid communication with strangers? If
> it is just an ordinary language then why would merchants use
> Tradetalk at all and not some pidgin version of their own
> language?
Merchants use Tradetalk because it is the official language of their god (devotion), because it has spread through much of the world (practicality), because the people they teach it to will usually teach it to someone else (universality), and it is the simplest, most concise language in the world, and therefor the easiest and fastest to teach or learn (efficiency).
> Morgan Conrad
> I view Indonesian as a model for Tradetalk. A language made up of
pieces
> from other nearby languages. Designed for simple communications and
> trading. One prime example is *no tenses*. Instead of "I will go" or
"I
> went", you say "Tommorrow I go" or "Yesterday I go".
Morgan is very close to my concept. Issaries put all of his skill into designing a small language that anyone can learn and use in a minimum of time. It would have simple words, no irregular verbs, be easy for most creatures to pronounce, and have a small, concise vocabulary, targeted to its mission of negotiation and -basic- understanding.
This is magic in the sense that 'all sufficiently advanced technology will appear as magic to a primitive being'. It is also magic in the sense that it is created and directly given by a god, and is spread religiously by that god's priests. Many things in Glorantha that are described as magic, required little, or no, spell casting, just brilliant engineering and/or a lot of laborers.
The dwarves have created many items of 'magic' that are appropriate for the late medieval and early renaissance periods on earth, and these mark some of the high points of their technology.
Tradetalk is the closest thing Glorantha has to a common tongue and most
adventurers have to learn it if they are going to travel much or work
closely with other cultures.
> ------------------------------
> >> --Peter Metcalfe
> >> actually meant (Glorantha Book p35) was that no humans could actually
> >> attain a skill of any higher than 25% in the _spoken_ [Auld Wyrmish]
> >Your characters can still presumably undergo the
> >operation so that you could get better
> Why would you need an operation to understand written Auld Wyrmish?
Clearly, having your tongue split is to let you make the sounds better, and having your brain split is to think draconic concepts better. I was referring to exceeding the 25% spoken limit as the EWF did.
With the worship of Orlanth Dragonfriend recently renewed, it is
conceivable to reforge some of the draconic ties.
> ------------------------------
> I do not believe that Pavic natives have forgotten most of their
> EWF-era language and replaced it with foreign words.
Let's define some terms: "Old Pavic" is the city language in the glory days of the 1100's and was brought from EWF. "Pavic" is the current, or 1600's version of the same language after being used by the (mostly illiterate) Rubble population for 500 years.
While Old Pavic can still be taught and learned from the ancient scrolls, this is only going to be common among the literate priests, nobles, and wealthy social climbers, and these are the people most likely to keep the ancient language alive. A few commoners will pick up parts of the language from worship services and use them to sound more impressive. This is a direct parallel to Latin is the early Dark Ages.
I -do- believe that Pavic has lost most of the words that are not used in daily life, and has added local words for concepts that didn't exist in Dragon Pass. This merging of a foreign language with local concepts is how Latin turned into Spanish, French, and Italian.
When viewed in this fashion, it is clearly necessary for a Pavic speaker
to add Old Pavic if he wants to read the ancient writings fully.
> ------------------------------
> Yet suggesting that we create a _new_ language to distinguish the
> language written in the days of the EWF from that of modern Pavic
> natives today seems to me to be rules overkill on par with Monster
> Colloseium's Chariot Construction Rules.
I believe that Pavic already exists in the published material, especially the NPC character sheets, the distinction isn't created by me.
By the way, one of my friends runs the chariot rules. Just because they are worthless to you doesn't make them invalid, only for your campaign.
> Nobody today speaks EWF-era Old Pavic nor are there any circumstances
> in which one concievably encounters a living speaker of EWF Old Pavic.
You were the one who gave us that wonderful reference to Old Pavic being spoken in worship services in Adari and Pavis, so you are contradicting yourself. There are scholars today who can speak ancient Latin or Greek conversationally, the same would certainly apply to Old Pavic.
> >I have had characters want to add Waha Knot reading,
> >Agimori Hunter Sign, and Spirit Speech just because they ran across
them
> >in various module references, and these can certainly be considered to
> >provide little gain, but possibly enough to be justified in their
> >character concept.
>
> The difference between Waha Knot Reading and written Praxian is what?
Waha Knots are a coded communication separate from the Praxian language. I think that it was introduced in 'Borderlands'. There is also a reference in the Prax Book of Drastic Resolutions.
> Agimori Hunter sign is hardly equivalent to American Sign Language to
> warrant it being treated it as a language in its own right as you
suggest
I believe that this was listed as a language under Chingua Tall Leopard in 'Shadows on the Borderland'.
I personally don't think that Waha Knots or Hunter Sign are complex enough to be treated as a language (since they are directed to such a narrow purpose) unless they are easier than Tradetalk to learn, but it was the player's decision to try to improve these skills, not mine. The rules say that new skills should be created by the referee as they are needed by the game.
> . Lastly learning Spiritspeech to add to 'character concept' is
> a contradiction in terms without a clear idea of what the language is
> actually used for ...
I think that this was listed under Penliss, the Sun County Shaman in 'Shadows on the Borderland' (that's an interesting concept itself). The author certainly felt that many spirits had a unique language.
> - a module reference is hardly adequate for this purpose IMHO.
In the sense that all modules are sanctioned by Chaosium and the RQ staff, I fully disagree. Many modules have even had new rules and clarifications printed in them changing previously printed material.
They are also educational to demonstrate things that are considered possible that are not covered within the normal rules. Bob Stancliff
End of The Glorantha Digest V7 #127
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