>> >The
>> >human language of the Orlanthi EWF would have been some ancient
>> >Theyalan tongue, but no more similar to modern Sartarite as it is
>> >to modern Tusk Rider (to choose a definite EWF descendant).
Me>> The Tusk Riders were a distinct Orlanthi people long before the EWF,
>> having existed at the Dawn. The human language of the EWF is stated
>> in RQ2 to be Old Pavic and still spoken today by the Pavic natives.
>I thought that tusk riders were created during the EWF, or at least at the
>end of it. Every single reference that I have seen states that they were
>created at the end of the second age.
Every reference that you've seen states that they interbred with trolls at the end of the second age which is not the same thing. They were riding the pigs before long before this according to:
Briefly, though, I must recount the greatest [of Heortling Places]: the Temple of the Ivory Plinth, nestled in the Tallseed Forest, where Aram's brave boar riders regularly give sacrifices, ... Broken Council Guidebook p11
Aram-ya-Udram, the founder of the Tribe, died sometime in 178 ST, well before the EWF's founding in 578 ST (hence the Elder Secrets reference is apparently an error).
>If you mean the ancestors of Tusk
>Riders then I can understand them being a distinct Orlanthi people.
>However, they were a remnant of the EWf so presumably spoke some
>sort of EWF language, which you say is Old Pavic, and which I think
>is Auld Wyrmish.
It isn't "according to me". I have stated enough references to show that the Wyrmfriends spoke Auld Wyrmish while the ordinary citizens spoke Old Pavic. Furthermore there are plenty of other remnants of the EWF that do not speak Auld Wyrmish or some sort of EWF language, such as the Beast People and the Ducks.
We don't even know the precise relationship the Tuskers had with the EWF. Elder Secrets speaks of their betrayal by the Dragon King and their inhumanity might have been a curse because they refused to join the EWF or warred against it.
>The fact that
>you need special Dragon brain/tongue to attain more than 25% in Speak Auld
>Wyrmish, and that normal Old Pavic speakers get 25% in Auld Wyrmish is, I
>think, more than a coincidence.
So? I'm not denying that the bigwigs of the EWF spoke Auld Wyrmish. My position is that the vast majority of the ordinary citizens of the EWF spoke Old Pavic, a theyalan tongue enriched by Auld Wyrmish. And a nitpick: most of them would have only known Auld Wyrmish at 7-10% (according to RQ3 rules) which is worse than a stupid native.
>The scrolls written in Auld Wyrmish also hint
>that it, rather than Old Pavic, were used in the EWF.
And? From 1066 until Richard III, many english records were written in medieval french being the language of the invading norman aristocracy. That doesn't alter the fact that the vast majority of Englishmen spoke a form of English rather than french. Likewise it is with Old Pavic and Auld Wyrmish.
>Another clue is the name Auld Wyrmish, as opposed to just Wyrmish,
>which implies that it was used a long time ago, during the EWF for
>example.
Auld Wyrmish was used long before the EWF. It is the native language of the Dragonewts ever since Heart of Weakness was born (and probably before that too). I don't know of any seperate language called Wyrmish nor any reason why there should be one.
>Incidentally I think it is a bit
>of a passing reference in RQ2 to the origins of Old Pavic and in the
>space allocated one wouldn't expect a full analysis of it's history.
Yet "spoken in the Empire of the Wyrm Friends" and "native humans still speak it" are pretty unambiguous statements.
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