KN>> >However, they were a remnant of the EWf so presumably spoke some
Me>> It isn't "according to me". I have stated enough references...
>It is only the one line of RQ2 rules book, I think, which states that
>ordinary citizens of the EWF spoke Old Pavic (noting that Pavis was not
>actually part of the EWF).
I said reference_s_. I also pointed to the Genertela boxed set which said that six centuries ago, the rulers spoke a now-extinct Theyalan dialect.
>It doesn't really even state that, it states Old
>Pavic "was spoken in" not "was the main language of" or "was spoken
>throughout" just "in".
Given that Pavis was not part of the EWF, perhaps you care to propose an alternative hypothesis whereby Old Pavic is somehow important enough to be spoken "in" the EWF? I do not think that the sentence was intended to mean that Old Pavic was only spoken by Pavisite tourists and traders to the EWF.
>> to show
>> that the Wyrmfriends spoke Auld Wyrmish while the ordinary citizens
>> spoke Old Pavic. Furthermore there are plenty of other remnants of
>> the EWF that do not speak Auld Wyrmish or some sort of EWF language,
>> such as the Beast People and the Ducks.
>So Old Pavic was the language of the EWF and yet neither ducks nor Beast
>People or Tusk Riders spoke it?
Are Ducks and Tusk Riders "ordinary citizens" in any empire? A+ for effort, nevertheless.
>My position is that the vast majority of the ordinary citizens of the EWF
>spoke whatever language they spoke before they became part of the EWF, ie
>mostly Theyalan languages, but also Dara Happan. Pure Horse Tongue,
>Beastspeech, Seshnegi (possibly, for those Impious Scholars in Nochet)
>enriched by Auld Wyrmish.
Then you run up against the Genertela Book reference which states that six centuries ago, the rulers of Peloria spoke a extinct theyalan tongue. Since this roughly corresponds to the time when the EWF ruled Peloria (the exact years of the Dragon Sun's reign was not known then) and the EWF came from what is now Sartar/Dragon's Eye, the default assumption is that the language concerned was EWF-Quivini (although all Dragon Pass would have spoken it then).
Now since Pavis was settled largely by people from Dragon Pass and the Old Pavisites speak a theyalan tongue enriched by Auld Wyrmish, the simplest assumption is that their language is that spoken by ordinary people of Dragon Pass during the EWF era.
Yes, Dara Happans, Night Kingdom folk and other subjects of the EWF will still speak their own languages but they have to communicate with the rulers. Since they can't understand Auld Wyrmish, they would have to speak a human tongue. Given the balance of power, this would usually be the ruler's own tongue ie EWF-Quivini/Old Pavic.
>A nitpick: (assuming it *meant* that speakers of Draconic
>knew Old Pavic at half their Draconic ability then the language conversion
>is not reciprocal.
A typo can not necessarily be ruled out. IMO it should be a quarter or else we are left with the impression that speaking Auld Wyrmish gives some insight into speaking a theyalan tongue.
>The fact that it is refered to (presumably by humans) as Auld Wyrmish
>seems to me to indicate that it was a language used long ago (by humans).
>Vistikos didn't say "I've learnt a new language, I'm going to call it Old
>Wyrmish". I don't suppose the dragonewts refer to their language as Auld
>Wyrmish either, it is just modern (1621ST) scholars digging through
>ancient documents.
Wyrms were friendly with humans as long ago as the Dawn Ages (cf the D:LoD reference of Scholars on Wyrmback discovering Kartolin Pass). They would have picked up some wyrmish then to communicate with the less intelligent wyrms and so the language would have been thought 'auld' when Vistikos discovered the EWF.
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 10:25:59 +200
>From: "Frusetta James" <JNF990_at_st.aubg.bg>
>Subject: Argot Trolls
>
>Bob Stancliff revealed:
>> This would be a particularly disappointing process since
>> notable parts of troll language are gangster slang from old
>> movies... basically Chicago slum argot circa 1930. The prime
>> example is 'Dagori Inkarth', which is 'Da (the) gory ink earth' and
>> is actually translated in the books as 'the bloody, black ground'.
>> 'Uz' is 'us', and 'you' is probably 'yuz' or 'yuz gyz'.
>Now this is interesting. Uz is easy to figure, but I hadn't caught
>the Chicago reference. Another classic Greg Gem is "Laca," from "Los
>Angeles, California." (LA, CA). I'll have to rent some ganster
>movies and see if I can catch some references.
>
>Any thoughts on "Kyger Litor" or "Zorak Zoran"?
>
>> When Glorantha was created, far more of it seems to have been comedic,
>> such as Hungry Jacks and ducks, than is true now. Scholarship is
>> fine to a point, and I do try to look up questions when we play, but
>> when it interferes with the game, I tend to run from my feelings,
>> and 'who cares about the details'.
>True, though spurious scholarship has its own form of enjoyment,
>which was the rational here. I get enough of the serious scholarship
>crap at work -- the stuff for Glorantha is mindcandy. :)
>
>Trotsky revealed plans for Elfpak:
>Three books? Which one has the recipes? Release that one first.
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