ME
I still think that 170km of Praxian chaparral makes it pretty remote from the
rest of the EWF. I think the places mentioned are pretty remote and expect
the people there would have spoken different languages. Pavis would be easily
accessable up the river of Cradles, making it more accessable to the Middle
Sea Empire than the EWF.
>Besides this I am also suggesting that Old Pavic was the urban/draconic
>version of the language of the Pure Horse/Zebra nomads who occupied Prax
>during the Pavic Golden Age.
PETER
So in your opinion, Old Pavic is a Pentan tongue rather than
the Theyalan tongue mentioned in the example on p33 of the
Glorantha Book?
ME:
As I said before, I believe Old Pavic to be an amalgam of several different
languages, with a very significant Pentan/Pure Horse part to it. The whole
structure of the language would have been warped by Draconic, which was
suddenly forgotten by humans, forcing them to communicate in whatever human
languages they could still remember.
I do not think that the example (in hte Glorantha book) can be taken as proof that Old Pavic is a Theyalan tongue. Old Pavic speakers in RQ2 did not gain any Sartarite ability. Biturian Varosh certainly had trouble speaking Old Pavic to the Troll Priestess.
>Again I disagree with your assumption that the majority of original
>settlers were Theyalan, and that Pavis had more than just a band of
>Pure Horse followers.
PETER:
When Pavis came to Prax with his great statute, he
was accompanied by many lesser allies often only
hinted at in the histories and legends. One ally
was the army of land-hungry horse riders, the
followers of Joraz Kyrem.
P&BR p61
The description of Joraz as a "lesser" ally strongly implies that the original character of Pavis was not dominantly Pure Horse as you suggest.
ME:
This isn't a description of Joraz as a lesser ally at all. The lesser allies
were only hinted at; Joraz and the horse riders are mentioned in every
history of Pavis I've ever seen, they end up ruling the place, the land is
set aside for their horses, they are the ones who go and get help to drive
out Thog. They are the ones who defeat the giants at the Too Tall Battle (the
magic of Pavis and his friends defeat the nomads and the Faceless Statue
defeats Waha).
>The Pure Horse had been pretty much forced out of Prax by Waha and
>Paragua and therefore there was a whole tribe of horsey folk looking
>to reestablish themselves, with Pavis and the Faceless statues help,
>in Prax.
PETER:
I believe the last time there was a debate over the origins of
the Zebra tribe, it was agreed that Joraz's tribe was really
only one tribe of the Pure Horse People that had originally
dwelt in and around Robcradle.
ME:
I would agree that Joraz would only have converted a section of less
traditional Pure Horsemen to his Issaries plans to create something new (the
zebra). What point are you making in relation to language?
>The next major influx of people was in 877, with the Theyalan Sun
>Domers who introduced farming into the valley.
PETER
That doesn't prevent the grazelands inside the walls being used
to herd cattle before this time as most of the original Pavisites
would have done.
ME:
No, this doesn't make sense as the original Pavisites are Pure Horse, or at
least Not-So-Pure Horse descendants of Pure Horse people, who speak Pentan.
>Please advise me what language you think Joraz Kyrem
>spoke? or the rest of the Arrowsmith Dynasty until 940?
PETER
Old Pavic. He may know Pure Horse but it has become a
redundant language shortly after the Zebras were made.
ME
Are you suggesting that the Khan of the Pure Horse People didn't speak Pure
Horse as his native tongue? That Old Pavic existed as a language before the
foundation of Pavis? That the Horse People who changed to Zebra Riders
suddenly started speaking a new Stripy Language (Old Barcode?)
>The evidence that Pure Horse was still spoken by people is that the
>Pure Horse still spoke it, and their descendants (the Grazelanders)
>still speak it.
PETER
But Joraz Kyrem is hardly a Pure Horse man when he has his horses
acquire stripes! After this, there's nothing to prevent his people
from miscenegating themselves with other people of Pavis. He may
still call himself Pure Horse after the event, but he's compromised
the ancient purity.
ME
I agree that he has compromised his ancient purity, but what suddenly makes
him speak another language, totally unrelated to his own? Do you think that
Pure Horse Tongue is some sort of magical language that remains unchanged as
long as you remain Pure?
I feel that having a Pure Horse element to Pavis fits in well with the other contradictory features of the place: an EWF city founded, originally, by Godlearners, a founder who is a half elf yet friends with a dwarf, a city built by nomads.
Keith N
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