Are names less silly after hundreds of years? from Frusetta James on 1999-12-14 (Glorantha Digest Vol 07)

From: Frusetta James <JNF990_at_st.aubg.bg>
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 17:18:12 +200

Dom Twist wrote:
> HOWEVER.....the big difference is that the names in long settled areas have
> had a chance to evolve and mutate over time...and this DOES change their
> nature.

True, though don't underestimate how much change the US *has* had, especially with pronunciation. It never fails to amaze me that people in Anchorage, AK (*maybe* 100 years old, but only a city for about 40 years if you don't count moose and walruses as citizens) usually don't realize that it's called "Anchorage" because Capt' Cook dropped an anchor in the bay. (Since it's pronounced "Ankreg," this makes some sense.) Or Vald-eh-z -> Vald-ee-z. Or Kah-sel-ov to Kah- -loff. Or Temp-ay, AZ to Temp-ee (as is official city law -- Greek history be damned!)

Really, the Eastern US *has* had 350+ years for mutation, y'know. Plenty of time.

> american names in the US and Canada or the place names used in the old USSR)
> but just dont cut it in a area settled for a long time..although a new town
> or settlement or two isnt out of place.
Maybe, but don't underestimate the power of wacky names.

To wit, I'm currently living in Blagoevgrad, Bulgaria. Now, this is named after ol' Dyado Blagoev, famed Bulgarian commie. When the Bulgarians went into the renaming streak after 1989, Blagoevgrad was untouched -- because who wants the nasty old *Turkish* name, Gorna Djumaya? ("High Mosque.") The further irony is one quarter of the city is named "Alen Mak," after Blagoev's favorite song... Now, Bulgarians have lived here for a *long* time, but changed the name away from its non-Bulgarian name and now can't figure out anything better. So silly names can stick.

And, of course, just because people have forgotten that the names are silly doesn't mean they aren't still silly. ;)

> Go take a map of the US...then look at one of Europe....you can immediately
> tell which one was settled most recently....and the same should be true of
> Glorantha.

Yup, with the caveat you give for Commies -- though you can see a big difference between Western and Eastern Europe on a map, too. Because with several major ethnic groups (and usually one urban group and one rural group -- Germans/Poles, Saxons & Magyars/Romanians, Jews & Turks /Greeks & Bulgarians), there used to be two or three names for each city.

Get a detailed map of Europe circa 1900 and one of 1999, start looking at city names, and notice the difference. Probably more differences in Europe than in the US over this period, actually -- not mutation, but strict change. (E.g., hard to find "Danzig" on a map.)

Ironically, having a "Swenstown" in Sartar is probably about as loopy as having "Hermanstadt" in Romania -- the kicker being that the *Romanians* call Hermanstadt "Sibiu." (If I remember this correctly -- and it has a Hungarian name, too. Heck, Cluj has four names.)

Hmm... given RW names like "Otelu Rosu," "Magnitogorsk," "Tito Veles," maybe the problem is just that Greg's the equivalent of a Gloranthan Communist. :) At least he hasn't put a "Gregville," "Greggrad" or "Gregtown" in each geographic region.

End of The Glorantha Digest V7 #225