How about Theism/Materialism? The Aeolian sorcerers of Heortland make use of what most of us would term RQ3 sorcery, as well as (from what I understand) Orlanth Pantheon Rune Magic (oh, how I hate the AH term 'Divine Magic'!)
I imagine the Aeolians being especially targeted during the Lunar invasion of Heortland/Esrolia. Would Dragon Pass Orlanthi think of them as Meldeks, somewhat-meldeks, or just people with weird magic?
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 09:53:24 +1100
> From: "Hughes, John (NAT)" <JohnP.Hughes_at_dva.gov.au>
> Subject: Oh Mighty Orlanth!!
>
> Heys Folks
>
> Gary Switzer:
>
> > Donandar is Orlanth's Bard, which would
> > imply some degree of trust, wouldn't it?
Truly? I thought Dorgasi was..or at least Dorgasi is the Orlanth god of music. Perhaps Dorgasi is the deity of performers and battle pipers, while Donandar is god of singing and drama, as well as other forms of music. Donandar smells like an import deity from Esrolia, who's more for townsfolk as opposed to Orlanth hillmen.
About Skalds - Skalds are historians also, if my memory serves me correct, as were celtic bards. This would seem to my mind that Lhankor Mhy devotees would train themselves in singing the runes, so as to use the poetic mnemonics to memorize the great sagas and histories, and family lineages.
Thus, Orlanth's bard would be trusted, but I'm not sure he'd be Donandar, but perhaps old Greybeard himself! I'm also thinking that perhaps devotees of all 3 gods could perhaps fill the role of Skald or Bard.
One last thing about Bards...Supposedly, the greatest bard, poet and balladeer of Orlanthi culture was old Windy himself. Specifically, Orlanth Adventurous (I'm not saying Warrior till it comes out in Hero Wars, call me a throwback. I like the way Adventurous sounds) I'd think that a Skald may be an Adventurous (or Orlanth the Poet?) Devotee/Initiate who would stand at the side of an Orlanth Rex Chieftain.
> Trust yes, high moral character no.
>
> This is *Orlanth* we're talking here, the original (well, son of original)
> impulsive, loud, boasting, lying, cowardly, thieving, kin-fighting,
> bullying, self-obsessed barbarian storm lord, who just happens to be Lord
of
> All because
>
> a) he married into a good family, and
>
> b) he suffers from a very bad case of morning-after regret syndrome, which
> means he takes responsibility to unstuff everything he has verily
wackered.
Which basically negates all that bad stuff above... Orlanth's story is one of personal self-reform and sacrifice, I think. Yelm never grows beyond himself in GROY or anywhere else, because he's de facto perfect or at worst a victim. Orlanth has foibles and is a god who learns through experience, and transforms himself through Heroquesting. Yelm is a 'perfect' deity who is revealed to be imperfect later, while Orlanth is an imperfect godling who becomes the best god by giving of himself and assuming responsibility for his own mistakes.
Hey, does it mention anywhere in GROY where Yelm says, "I was wrong", or "I'm sorry?"
> __________________________________
> "Rune-questers these heroes, reckless in the cattle raid, generous in
> gifting, bloody in battle, eloquent in the moot, courageous in compassion,
> ferocious in worship, passionate in praise, resolute in heroquest, tender
in
> courtship, humble in learning from their mistakes." 'A Rope of Cedarbark'.
Hear hear! To hell with the Lunar Way, make mine Orlanthi any day!
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 09:43:47 +1100
> From: MOB <mrmob_at_ozemail.com.au>
> Subject: Great Map
>
> G'day all,
>
> _________
> Great Map
>
> Gary R Switzer sez of his Great Map story:
>
> >My idea was that the copper plates would be used to brand vellum, having
been
> >heated either magically or mundanely. Fine details could be filled in by
> hand. Not
> >a method for mass production but the Great Library might only need a copy
> on rare
> >occasions. The Lunars got carried away, but they would. :)
>
> This is cool, so it's gotta be true!
Perhaps this is some kind of Issaries artifact?
From my understanding, Issaries and the other Lightbringers besides Orlanth are stronger in Esrolia than in Sartar, no?
You can also check the passages taken from Cults of Terror, which describe the 4 origins of the cosmos (humanist/sorcery, theist/rune magic, animist/shamanism, and mysticism/?)
Of course, one could say this is a God Learner construct. But it's still useful for comparison. One of the supposed victories of the Lunar Way is that Lunar Magicians can practice all types of magic.
>
> Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 12:38:03 +1100
> From: darvall <madamx_at_ns2.mikka.net.au>
> Subject: Watching Spells & Potential Converts
>
> Simon Hibbs
> >...I think Gloranthans in the know can quite clearly see a fundamental
> >>difference when an umath shaman invokes a magical power and when an
> >Orlanth >priest invokes a magical power, even when in RQ terms they are
> >using the
> >same rune spell...
> puts his finger on something that has been vaugely bothering me for some
> time. Presumably the shamanic manifestation is as varied as the shamans &
> the spirits involved whilst theistic worship produces a much more
> predictable (Tricksters excepted?) show. Sourcery of course should be
> utterly predictable except where you bugger the spell up & are
consequently
> torn to pieces by demons.
> This also addresses the relative strengths of the methods. Shamans are the
> most flexible at the cost of predictability while sourcerors can repeat
> their results but have to work harder to get a range of effects.
> Illuminants have the benefit of both but run a greater risk of going
> mad/turning into a gorp etc.
> Just a theory.
IMO, Gods like Umath are not directly invoked for their Rune powers. In fact, technically, Umath is dead (slain by Shargash?) and his powers and authority were inherited by Orlanth and Kolat. IMO, While Umath may be named in ceremonies, you really can't worship him to gain powers and have to appeal to one of his sons, such as the above named deities.
As for the 'flexibility' of effects, I don't think there's much in the canon to bear this out. My personal opinion is that regardless of magic type, the more you go astray from your people's rites, myths and formulae, the more potential for innovation you have, but the more you can really botch up things (call up an unknown spirit or ancestor if shaman. Heroquest down new, weird myth path for theists, or not casting that spell exactly right for a Sorcerer.)
> Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 19:46:30 +0900
> From: Tadaaki Kakegawa <yelmalio_at_za2.so-net.ne.jp>
> Subject: Orlanthi cultural keywords
>
> Hello,
Good to hear from you, Tadaaki!
> I enjoy reading Wesley Quadros' Gwandor Saga series on web and other
> orlanthi materials in Enclosure #1,#2, Tales #18, and Ye Book of
> Tentacles #2 recently, but has some questions about orlanthi cultural
> keywords and others.
>
> 1. What accurately do these words mean?
>
> -- weregild
"Blood Price". This is an old nordic practice where a slain person's
relatives could be legally compensated for the loss of a family member by a
cash payment. The traditional payment for a viking household warrior that I
know of was supposedly 7 Cows.
> -- housecarl (or huscarl?)
Household warrior. Supported by the Clan to strictly fight, as opposed to most Orlanthi who farm and fight when necessary. Vaguely similar to knights in later western europe and perhaps samurai.
> -- weaponthane - Same as above, but also a noble, specifically one of
the Chief/King's bodyguards.
> -- fyrd - The clan militia, only gathered when the clan goes to war.
Led by Weaponthanes and the Chief.
> -- feud - I'm not sure what the word in japanese would be. Ongoing
vengeance conflict between clans or tribes?
> -- kinstrife - Conflict within a family, Brother killing Brother. The
worst crime any Orlanthi can commit. The worst manifestation of Chaos known
> -- clan (or tribal) champion - Just what it says, usually the best
fighter, chosen by the chief/king
> -- godi - God Talker - priest
> -- god-talker - as above
> -- law-speaker - The historian who quotes legal precedent - a cross
between a judge and a lawyer who through the old sagas and verse can quite
legal precedent. Usually a worshipper of Lhankor Mhy.
>
> 2. What are difference between "tula" and "stead"?
None, really.
> 3. Is Elmal still worshipped among Sartarite? Yelm is not recognized as
> "the Sun"?
Oh, I'm not touching this one with a 10 foot pole.
> 4. Can I call worshiper of Elmal as "Elmalion"?
Actually, Elmali is a good term.
> 5. How orlanthi live in the stead? How many families does belong to a
> stead? How often weponthane patrol visit? How they farmers defend
> themselves from dangers of wilderness (chaos/bandit/raid)?
I'm not sure, I'm sure others on the list can help here.
> 5. Keeps (Runegate , Jalorar etc.) has owner clan ? or Royal House
> kept it?
Cities are organized as 'City Rings', with each city basically being it's
own Clan.
Happy new year and sacred time to everyone!
Chris Bell
argrath_at_xsite.net
End of The Glorantha Digest V7 #249
Powered by hypermail