>>> There are the God Forgotten to tell [the Aeolians] their perfidy >>> and the truth of their words would be given extra force since the >>> Opening with renewed contacts with the West. The Aeolians will >>> certainly be bewildered by this.
>>The God Forgotten have come there because they did it wrong, and still >>haven't got it right.
> Nevertheless they can muster impressive credentials to show the
> Aeolians that their ways are non-standard Malkioniwise.
The situation is comparable to the Brithini presence in Seshnela. They simply are too ultra-orthodox in their ways to qualify as standard Malkioni.
>>Renewed contact with the West did indeed shatter much of the Aeolians' >>self-imagery, and led to a schism between Malkioni-friendly "acceptors" >>and Orlanthi-friendly "rebels".
> I think the situation is a wee bit more complicated than that
> and besides the labels are slightly misleading. The Aeolians
> are Malkioni hence Malkioni-friendly is a tad redundant.
They are Malkioni by religious practise, but Hendriki by nation and culture. (There is neither indication nor point to their having anything resembling the orthodox caste system.)
"Malkioni-friendly" indicates friendliness to Seshnegi or Ralian Malkioni culture.
> Also
> I don't think Aeolianism is really that rigid a faith for people
> to have schisms. Rather the division is _political_.
I'd say cultural, but our positions aren't that far apart.
> In the beginning, the Aeolians are part of the Nochet bishopric.
In name, at least, from the Nochet POV. I doubt that the Aeolians themselves see it this way. This is similar to Augustinus finding himself at odds with converts from Irish missionaries.
> The creed is some sort of Stygianism that the Pharaoh has
> tinkered around with.
IMO it's some sort of Henotheism, not Stygianism. Personal enlightenment doesn't seem to play any role here.
> Come the Opening and the Du Tumerines
> and the Capratis reach Nochet and bring word of their faith.
> Consequently the Bishopric is now in Communion with the See of
> Leplain, the bishop's a paid lackey of the Quinpolic League and
> they are busy trying to convert the Aeolians to their faith to
> create an allied nation in the region. Richard's reign was part
> of this process.
No disagreement about this (and between Peter and myself, this warrants a blatant disregard of Rule 1).
> I suspect similar efforts are being made to
> convert the God Forgotten but they are less than successful.
Are or were there any sort of Rokari conversion attempts with the Brithini of Arolanit? IMO the God Forgotten don't even share the concept of Solace with the Malkioni of Maniria - this is how they came to their name.
> Accordingly, I would group the three main groups of Malkioni
> in Heortland as follows. The divisions that exist between
> them are not doctrinal but largely political.
Political, and cultural. One of the issues is how much of the Orlanthi inheritance in Heortland's "constitution" will remain under Malkioni reign, e.g. how much of the freedom to follow chosen leaders.
> The Seshnegi faction not only includes immigrant knights from
> Nolos, Pasos and Tanisor but also native Aeolians who have
> been seduced by the fame and fortunes of these knights.
Up to native Orlanthi Hendriki flirting with these. In 1617, this faction was powerful enough to make Richard King of the Hendriki.
> Heretical Malkioni such as Stygians (whom they have contact
> with at Handra) or Ramalians (through Khorst) are tolerated
> as the Seshnegi have prayers that protect them against
> heretical corruption while they fleece them. Hence I don't
> believe that the Seshnegi in Heortland are po-faced Rokari
> zealots imposing their creed on the Aeolians with the fire
> and the sword.
I don't claim this was the case everywhere, either. If it had been, Richard never would have stood even a slight chance to become king. But I do think that there are some such po-faced zealots in league with greedy mercenary types come to power under Richard (and a bishop from a mercantyle dynasty) which perform this iconoclasm. It makes for a good story-line, in a smaller area. I still think that Jansholm (and Mularik Ironeye as its sheriff) is the ideal setting for this sort of activities. This is where I put my campaign focus, and that's a big part of the background I've been arguing from. I've always said that things were different elsewhere in Heortland, and that Mularik was the extreme case of letting such things happen to excess.
> The Seshnegi _were_ desecrating holy places and converting people
> at swordpoint in the recent civil war but that IMO was directed
> against opponents of King Richard's Rule (both Orlanthi and
> Aeolian) and was done to show them who was the boss.
That's how I see it, too. Especially when iconoclasm happened to yield valuable raw materials after the "pagan icons" had been destroyed.
> The main opponents of the Seshnegi faction are not more
> conservative Aeolians IMO but suspicious Heortland nobles
> who believe that the Seshnegi plan to place the pagan
> Heortlanders in bondage to the land.
That's what I called "more conservative Aeolian". Conservative wrt the cultural context, including the amount and role of hierarchy.
>>A church with a schism simply is more interesting than a monolithic >>block.
> The Aeolians seem to me to be more of a collection of like-minded
> communities scattered throughout the towns and cities of Heortland
> each with its own little church rather than have a organized
> hierarchy that a "church with a schism" implies.
The individual's rights to appeal to authorities of his own choosing may be seen as a political issue, but IMO this tradition inherited from the Heortling and Hendriki culture is anathema to the more orthodox Malkioni. Culture and religion are too interwoven to ignore this problem, and that's where I see the schism. I admit that my background in the history of the German Reformation and Counter-Reformation which mixed nationality with confession has coloured this view, which might be less apparent if you're more familiar with the British aspects and struggles of the Reformation. To take it back to Heortland, if you have a monolithic church (of Leplain) backing one faction in an ambiguous sect with the other side supporting an almost non-hierarchical approach, I have used the term schism. If there's a better term, I'll adopt it.
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