> Simply because it fits with the general pattern of Malkioni
> tending to be city people in pagan lands.
They usually end up owning the land of the pagans where they are in power, although there are some areas of Orlanthi-Malkioni cohabitation where the two cultures appear to be parallel - Otkorion and Umathela come to mind.
> I do not
> believe in Aeolian landowners because I believe Heortland
> to be still an Orlanthi kingdom (at least until the recent
> troubles).
I don't see any trouble with having Aeolian clans among Orlanthi clans. The titles, inheritance, etc. might be slightly different from Hendriki custom, but then the Hendriki use Malkioni terms for their nobility and gentry as well.
> If there was no bar to the Aeolians being
> a Noble, then I would expect Heortland to have become a
> nation ruled by Aeolian Nobles over the past few centuries.
That would have disrupted the elemental balance of the Pharaoh.
IIRC old Kentish law knew two degrees of nobility and freemen, the slightly higher weregild paid for the "Jute" nobles and carls, the somewhat lower amount for the British nobility.
In northeastern Germany, the local Slav lords became wealthy gentry, the ordinary tribespeople somewhat second-rate farmers during the colonisation of the western Slavic territories (most of which became known as Prussia in the 18th century).
>>Apparently there even are Aeolian nobles, what is their >>base of support?
> Where is the mention of Aeolian nobles?
"Noble" in an Orlanthi-like society is "decision-maker" or "counsillor". We agreed that the Hendriki are such a society?
Heortlings have a tradition (and lots of myths) of allowing leaders from different backgrounds among their counsillors. Starting with Aram ya Udram, a non-Heortling sitting on the Unity Council for the Heortlings and minor groups of other humans.
There is nothing to indicate that the Hendriki are barring the Aeolians from participation in maintaining (rather than governing) the kingdom.
> I do believe there
> are Aeolian nobles now, but I think their enoblement was
> very recent as a result of Sir Richard or the Lunar Empire.
I do believe that there even were Trader Prince nobles as early as the civil wars around Belintar's arrival. Nobles are (supposed to be) the ones who make decisions for the common good in difficult situations. Trader Prince knights, Aeolian administrators, Hendriki wind lords and lawspeakers all had their contributions to make, and in an Orlanthi kingdom these contributions should be awarded after merit.
>>While I appreciate your efforts to introduce some gypsie element >>to the region, I doubt that the Aeolians fit that bill.
> Where did I say the Aeolians were gypsies? My position is that
> they are an urban minority and include some rural labourers,
> making a comparison with the Irish. This is about as remote
> from gypsies as one can get.
Wandering rural labourers were part of the "traveling folk" in continental Europe, along with minstrels, jugglers, executioners, tinkers, etc., so I assumed you meant something like this.
>>If they are a power to be reckoned in the struggle for the >>throne, they must have some strong political influence.
> One can have indirect political influence merely by being a
> townie and paying taxes. Just because they have no formal
> voice in the Heortland state of affairs does not mean that
> they cannot exert influence.
What you describe is the role and influence of the medieval Jews, especially the role in Scott's Ivanhoe. I don't think that's appropriate.
>>> As a result the Aeolians have been looked down upon by the >>> mainstream Orlanthi because they do not live as Orlanthi should.
>>As have the Elmali clans, or troll friends.
> Who own land whereas IMO the Aeolians were forbidden to.
Let's say that I see no basis for this, and I don't share that opinion. Why construct a medieval Jew clone society?
> I do not believe that any Aeolians would compromise their
> traditions for political goals.
I believe that the Aeolians view themselves as subject to an imminent reform of their church. The direction of this reform is an issue.
Thus, in my picture, the Aeolians don't regard all of the changes they know they will undergo as a compromising of their traditions. The Pharaoh has disappeared, stability has gone, and they must do something to avoid sharing his fate.
> The Seshnegi are not
> going to alienate any Aeolians yet by insisting they must
> adopt a hierarchal structure. They are more likely to
> prefer the Aeolian church to be weak so it is more
> susceptible to their conversion efforts.
The Seshnegi seem to suggest that the Aeolian church is just a branch of their great church, thus claiming their authority over them sinc ethe bishop is theirs.
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